Ask the BuilderAsk the Builder
Ask the Builder's on:

Subscribe to askthebuilder's videos

Air Conditioning
Asphalt - Blacktop
Brick
Building Tips
Cabinets
Caulk
Ceilings
Ceramic Tile
Checklists
Chimneys
Concrete
Concrete Defects
Concrete Installation
Condensation
Countertops
Deck Construction
Deck Maintenance
Design
DIY
Doors
Drainage
Drywall - Plaster
DVDs
EBooks - EDocs
Electrical
Energy Savings
Engineered Wood
Fences
Fireplaces
Flooring
Foundation
Garage Doors
Glue
Hardware
Heating Design
Home Builders
Home Depot Stories
House Plans
Hurricanes
Insects
Inspections
Insulation
Interior Walls
Kitchen
Lighting
Lots
Miscellaneous
Mold
New Construction
Newsletters
Online Courses
Outdoor Projects
Painting - Staining
Patio
Payments
Plumbing Design
Plumbing Supplies
Projects
Radiant Barrier
Remodeling
Retaining Walls
Roofing
Rough Lumber
Screened Porches
Sheds
Siding
Specialty Accessories
Stone
Storage
Structural
Stucco - EIFS
Tools
Trim Lumber
Vapor Barrier
Ventilation
Videos
Walk Throughs
Wallpaper
Windows
Glossary




Poured Concrete Walls vs. Concrete Block

By Tim Carter
©1993-2008 Tim Carter
Summary: Concrete block was used to build thousands of basement foundation walls in Cincinnati and other parts of the nation in the 1950's building boom. Many of the builders and block layers failed to realize that block mortar typically only has 1/3 the strength in tension as concrete. Those block walls have a long horizontal crack in the bed joint about four feet from the floor. But you can build block walls that withstand the test of time.

To post a comment you can return to the full article page

Comments

Marty
26 Nov 2007, 11:04
I have a block wall basement. I have cracks that the builder claims were there when they backfilled. I have been in my house for almost 1 1/2 years. I don't know if the cracks were there to begin with or not. However, outside of anchors, how can I reinforce my wall? Would you recommend the steel posts that attach to the floor joists? I really don't think my wall is going to move but I would rather play it safe.
Thanks.
ATB
26 Nov 2007, 11:24
Marty,
Had you used my Walk Through Checklist, you *would* have known if those cracks were your responsibility or not. Oh well............

There are several repair methods. I feel it is best for you to contact a licensed structural engineer to get a solution. This person will produce a written plan that will be the road map to a long-lasting repair.
Bruce Bruni
02 Dec 2007, 13:20
I have hired a contactor (Bob) to close in a 16 foot garage door with a wall that will contain an entry door and window. Bob used two 16 foot pressure treated 2x4 as the wall’s base plate on top of the concrete floor, with an adhesive on the bottom to seal out water. The first rain allowed water to enter under the wood and into the garage. His solution was to coat the wood with a tar like substance to keep the water out. I am concerned that at some point the tar will dry out, crack and I will experience further water entry. The wall is not yet finished and is on hold until we can determine a course of action to rectify the situation to my satisfaction.

I have recommend removing the wall and lay a course of solid concrete block along the floor of the garage door opening, with hydraulic cement as mortar and then build the wall on top of the block. To match the front door of the house, the bottom of the new entry door has to be 16 inches from the ground, offering the ability to lay a second course of block if necessary, depending on the thickness of the block. Bob is reluctant to do that, stating that the block will shift and crack and leaking will occur and still requires tarring to seal out water and that what he has built will be more durable and waterproofed now that it is covered with tar.

The only other solution suggested by Bob is to dig down 4 feet and build a concrete wall from there. That is an expensive proposition and I think that there has to be a more economical option. What is your take on this and do you offer a better solution that is reasonable priced. I do intend to divert excessive water away from the area but want to be sure the wall will not leak in the future.

Thank you in advance for your recommendations.

Bruce
ATB
02 Dec 2007, 15:50
No no no no...... You just need a flashing under the wall. It is a very simple solution...... It will need to be fabricated from copper with turned-up edges on the back and sides and then have a turned-down edge along the exposed face of the wall.
Terry
15 Dec 2007, 15:50
How long should a poured basement foundation cure before adding the walls and how long should a poured wall basement cure before a modular home is places on the walls and foundation. If this was in the winter and it was cold and rainy.
AsktheBuilder
15 Dec 2007, 15:56
Terry,
There are so many variables, it is impossible to give you a crisp answer. But suffice it to say that within a few days with temperatures above 40F you should be in the clear. Read all of my columns about Cold Weather and Concrete to get a good idea of how much you should or should not worry.
Justin
16 Dec 2007, 18:12
ATB,

I will be constructing a new home in the fall of 2008. The home will consist of a full basement. I am researching basement wall types. I have read your comments on poured walls and block walls, but I am interested in your opinion on precast Superior walls. I would also like your opinion on which of the three wall options would be the most cost efficient.

Thanks
AsktheBuilder
16 Dec 2007, 19:03
Justin,
I have a few past columns about the precast foundation walls. You should read them. I can't comment on pricing as there are far too many variables that are market-specific.
ashish mehto
07 Jan 2008, 13:12
Which one is better-concrete block or red brick for construction of residential house?
AsktheBuilder
07 Jan 2008, 16:41
Ashish,
Not enough data........ There are maybe 5-10 variables!
Kimberly Smith
24 Jan 2008, 13:33
We are in PA, We just poured a 60' long wall 10" thick and the concrete contractor we used put kicker support walls on the outside of the wall instead of pillasters on the inside of the wall. Is this a structurally sound method? or should the contractor have put the pillasters on the inside of the wall? Please let me know asap or direct me to someone that can tell me. Thank you for your help.
AsktheBuilder
24 Jan 2008, 16:23
Kimberly,
You can get the accurate answer from a structural engineer.
karen
22 Feb 2008, 11:17
My home is built with cement blocks. I have noticed that when it rains, 2 sides of the house are leaking water above ground. Water I guess is somehow getting in through the grout between the blocks and sitting on the ledge in the basement. Help, any suggestion would be helpful.
AsktheBuilder
29 Feb 2008, 18:01
Karen,
Read ALL of the columns in my Drainage category and follow my advice.
Ruth
28 Mar 2008, 14:12
What would give you a better resale value on a house -- poured concrete basement walls with metal reinforcement or concrete block? Would there be a difference on an appraisal?
AsktheBuilder
30 Mar 2008, 11:59
Ruth,
I would think poured concrete.
Henry
30 Mar 2008, 12:20
I have read your comments on poured concrete walls vs concrete block, and your preference was to install a steel reinforced poured concrete wall.

Would you also prefer this steel reinforced poured concrete wall over a precast wall, like a superior precast wall system?
AsktheBuilder
31 Mar 2008, 16:07
Henry,
I like the precast systems. Did you read my columns about them?
S. Anthony
05 Apr 2008, 19:54
Dear Mr. Carter,

I want to point out an error in your article, "Poured Concrete Walls vs. Concrete Block". You said, "Consider installing singular vertical bars approximately two inches away from the inside face of the foundation wall every two feet on center. These bars will help withstand the bending force caused by the backfill dirt."

Locating re-bar from the "inside face" of your concrete wall will do next to nothing to help withstand lateral loads from backfill. If as you advise you locate your vertical re-bar there, you mine as well put a piano hinge on the inside along the bottom of you basement wall.

You didn’t quite mention "tensile strength" of concrete. It is its weak point, which is why steel re-bar is used. Alone, concrete has more compressive strength than anything else does. However, without re-bar it’s like a mammal without a skeletal structure.

In cross section, your vertical bars should be positioned 2” from the outside face of the conc. wall or, at least in the center.

I hope the error was a publishing oversight (see more and more these days) and not one of ignorance.
AsktheBuilder
09 Apr 2008, 17:14
S. Anthony,
As much as I hate to say this in public, you are wrong. The tension force on a backfilled concrete wall is greatest on the *inside* of the basement. The wall is trying to elongate there from top to bottom. The exact opposite is happening on the dirt side of the wall. Thus, you need the steel as close to the side as possible that is under tension. You want a 2-inch spacing so that there is adequate concrete coverage around the steel bars. If you still think I am wrong on this, I urge you to speak with a structural engineer that designs concrete retaining walls.
chris
13 Apr 2008, 21:01
Hi there. We're are in a process of looking for an older house, rehab (add a 2nd story and expand it) so it'll be our next home. However, the areas we love are older houses build before 1950 with block concrete basement foundations. 1 of the builders we're working with highly recommend we look for houses with poured concrete basement as they're stronger and easier to build a 2nd story. Does that sound correct to you?
Bruce
22 Apr 2008, 22:09
I have an "A" frame cabin (approx. 16x24) with a crawl space. The foundation is constructed from concrete block and there have been statements suggesting the footings are not below the frost line (located in central minnesota). Starting from the middle of the foundation (length wise) the block is separating. I have thought of lifting the cabin and removing the old foundation and replacing it with poured concrete wall reinforced with re-bar. Is this realistic....other thoughts??
Fausto
26 Jul 2008, 21:44
ATB -
I have a house that is having water coming in and it has eroded parts of the walls in the foundation/basement. I am thinking of buying a sealer to seal the crack on the inside and then building a 6-8 inch concrete wall. Is this a good idea or is there an easier way. Thanks
kareem aljumaily
03 Aug 2008, 14:51
ihave vertical& horizantal crackes in my buliding its deep crackes itry to fixed by used wire meshbut iam vaield
my bulding is solid block
Marvin Halverson
06 Aug 2008, 20:07
I just had a concrete block foundation wall built. Temps. here are around 70 - 80 degrees - Iowa. How long should I wait before building on it? Thank you.

Marvin Halverson
Dave
11 Aug 2008, 23:48
What is allowed when installing top plate on poured concrete walls. Do I have to use anchore bolts? Could I get by using a hilti gun and nailing the top plate. Will this pass code? Modular home guy mentioned straps.
aoife
16 Aug 2008, 08:22
how do you constuct small bricks for a fireplace do you have the hallow on top or beneath ?
joe
25 Aug 2008, 09:03
Regarding reinforcing steel for concrete basement walls, are you talking about a total of two 5/8" bars, one 16" from bottom of wall and one 16" from the top? Or are you recommending two at each location each one approximately 2" from each face of concrete?

Thanks in advance.

Joe

     To post a comment you can return to the full article page













Ask the Builder Comment Help

Helpful Comment Tips: If you need help with a problem, please try these things now before you type in a comment. You could discover your answer in just minutes.
  • Read ALL Comments Before Submitting One: If there are lots of comments that are already part of this column, there is a very good chance your question has already been answered by me or someone else.
  • Read Similar-Titled Columns First: The column above is almost always part of a two-or-three-part series. The answer to a question you may have is probably in a related column or in comments that are part of that column.
  • Read Columns in a Category: Take the time to read many columns in a category. The amount of information you will discover will amaze you.
  • SHARE a Story: Please share any tips or amusing tales of glory! Tell others what has worked for you. Maybe you have a disaster you want to discuss. Let's collaborate so we all learn together.
Don't show this alert again.