New Arc Fault Circuit Breakers

I have moved into a new home, and
I have one arc falt breaker that keeps on tripping. The builder has sent out (twice) the electrician who wired the house and they cant find anything wrong.
What should I do.

I have just installed new outdoor lighting and outlets on two circuits using a 3 wire plus ground outdoor cable. Can I protect both circuits with arc fault breakers in the main supply panel?

Ask the builder to find a new electrician who knows how to troubleshoot. The electrician you have is obviously out of his zone of comfort and knowledge.

Richard,
Since these are outdoors, I would prefer you use Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter breakers, not arc fault. The folks who author the National Electric Code most likely would agree.

I have a new home and the electrician installed "arc fault breakers". Since I connected my thread mill it jumps sometimes when I start. COuld it be that these breakers are not intended to work with electric motors? Thank you. Ron

Ron,
This is the first I have heard about a reaction like you describe. I would test with an extension cord to a circuit that has a normal breaker.

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I have a new home and when i turn on the light in my bath room the arc breaker for 2 of my bedrooms trips,however the light in the bathroom stays on.When i reset the breaker and leave the bathroom light off as soon as i put a load on any of the bedroom outlets i trip the arc breaker. Have any ideas?

Dennis,
Yes, since you say it is a new home, file a warranty claim. There is obviously a small short in the circuit.

Hi, I'm a second year apprentice and I'm working in a project for school, I'm working with afci, but I need to explain how this works,I allready took one apart, but I need to explain how it works, any idea or a page were I can find a diagram of a arc foult braker? thank you.

Can you install 2 arc-fault circuit breakers on a 3 wire home run or does each home run require its own neutral?

Rick,

Open the latest NEC code book or call your electrical inspector.

What is the best way to test, at the rough in stage, a circuit that will be ar fault protected? Finding the problem before sheetrock would make it much easier to repair.

Jim,
Simple. Wire nut the wires in the circuit together and at the end of the circuit install a fixture.

My bedroom is protected with an Arc Fault Breaker but when I plug in my tredmill the breaker trips. If I plug the treadmill into a circuit not on the Arc Fault breaker it works fine. Any ideas.

Bill,
It sounds like there is a tiny short in the treadmill..... and the breaker is doing its job.

If memory serves me correct Arc Fault circuits cannot share a neutral of a multiwire set. That being said most electricians might not know this and run 3-wire circuits to there respective loads creating nuiscance tripping.

Greetings--

Have a home about 3 yrs old. Within the last few months, the master bedroom arc breaker began tripping pretty frequently during the overnight hours when only a couple a clock radios are in use. After I reset, it usually won't trip again till about 24 hours later. Should I try replacing the extension cord that two clock radios are plugged into before calling someone out? It's an older cord, and I doubt it's the problem, but then again, I don't know much about this stuff. Curious as to what your thoughts would be. Thanks!

Norm,
Extension cords for a permanent hookup.... are you nuts? Many firemen will tell you they should be outlawed...... Plug the clocks into the outlets directly and see what happens.

Seems like these arc fault breakers would be good for the kitchen too. Do they make them for use with 15 amp split receptacles?

What causes a busbar to arc and how can you prevent this from occrring. Is thier preventative measures to take before it occurs?

DMartinez,
Well, it could be any number of things. If you are installing a breaker on a circuit that has something that is requesting power AND the breaker is in the On position with the circuit connected to the breaker, you will get a spark.

I am remodeling my home and need to install arc fault circuit in two Bdrs.
Can I use a single 2 wire Unit or do I need a 3 wire breaker ? also how do you wire in say 5 outlets ?

Thanks for your help!

David,
I am sorry to say that this modest Comment area is not the place to conduct Electric 101. You really need to read several books about wiring practices.

Could you please clarify the difference between an AFCI breaker and a GFCI breaker? Is one more useful than the other? Does it depend on the application?

These breakers are new and the tech. in them doesn't work properly yet. Its well known in the building community. If you ever try to plug in a miter saw to a outlet with arc fault protection. Most electricans in vermont put them in for inspection then take them out. There junk!

Could you please clarify for me: Does an AFCI breaker do the job of a GFCI breaker also? If not, is one better than the other? Does it depend on the application?

Chris,
They are two different breakers. Read my columns about each one.

I went to a 2008 code update, and the new code said that Arc-Fault breakers shall be of the combination type. The instructor tried to explain combination as parallel and series fault. Can you explain this clearly.

Thanks
Reggie

Reggie,
No, sorry, I am not an electrical engineer.

Similar to Ron above, we have a newer home that has arc-fault breakers on all bedroom circuits. When we plug in and turn on our Dyson vacume the arc-fault trips. Every time. Plugging it in in other outlets without the arc-fault breaker doesn't trip that breaker. Could there be a bad batch or brand of arc-fault breakers that doesn't like electrical motors? Using a kilawatt meter, we found the vacume takes 11.75 amps when running - well below the 15 amp breaker limit.

Mike,
They can be sensitive...... It is sensing an arc in the appliance.

Ron - I have installed an Arc Fault breaker in my bedroom circuits (plugs) as per code. The related circuits do not have a ground wire. However I do have a grounded circuit nearby (on a separate common breaker) - which I can easily connect to atleast half of these ungrounded, AF protected circuits. Do you know if i can share the ground wire from another circuit? Will this trip the AF breaker, and would it likely meet code?

Thanks,


Erik

Ron,

Sorry - to clarify my question from yesterday - I was misusing the part names.

What I meant is - can I draw the ground wire (not the neutral) from a grounded, common breaker-backed receptacle & bring it to one or more non-grounded receptacles that are backed by an arc fault breaker?

Thanks,

Erik

Erik,
Ask your local electrical inspector.

I have one arc fault breaker that keeps on tripping when I attach a rail lighting system. I have had my electrician come out a couple times but can't determined the problem. could there be a problem with in the step-down transformer.

I had a sub-panel installed for my saltwater aquariums. It has GFCI breakers in it. Should I use arc-fault breakers for aquariums? Heaters submerged in water, lots of pumps, some submerged, some not, fluorescent lights... You get the idea. Thanks,
bob

I am adding ceiling lights to one of my bedrooms. I shut-off the breaker for the bedroom (2nd)when checking to see how and where the wiring was running. After I was done, I switched the breaker back on. But when I did it tripped and tripped off the other bedroom breaker (3rd). The 2nd breaker won't move to the off or on position, just stays in the middle. The 3rd breaker will move to the on position, but there is no power to that bedroom. Any thoughts?

Scott,
Yes. What happens when you unplug it and plug in a regular tool or an appliance? When you turn on what was plugged in, what happens?

Andrew,
Yes. Call an electrician.

Hey there,
A curious question...I am installing an electrical receptacle half-way up the wall in our bedroom (for the wall-mount tv) and I am curious as to whether or not you know of a manufacturer that has a coax/receptacle combo available? I am sure I have seen one before but can't remember for certain. Thanks so much.

James

Bob,
What you have is fine in my opinion.

We are in a new appartment condo.

We are in the middle of installing a ceiling fan in the bedroom. While looking for the correct breaker switch to cut off the electric currant we discovered the arc fault breaker switch, and it is labelled 'bedroom plugs'. My husband tripped the switch to see exactly what it would cut off, and sure enough none of the bedroom plugs work. He also pressed the yellow 'test' button, and now we cannot reset the breaker.

Apparently we are supposed to press this test button at least once a month to make sure the AFBI is working properly.

Can you tell me why we cannot reset it. Hate to have to call an electrician! Thanks

I have an ARC fault circuit breaker BRAF on my bedrooms. The circuit trips when I use my Hoover vacuum (120v, 60, 12 amp). The builder said the breakers in the bedroom (I live in North Carolina) were built to code and that this is as stong as this breaker can be. I am not an electrician and am wondering if if this kind of breaker should be able to handle this load?

It is likely that the neutrals of all three circuits are tied together and it will not function correctly until the neutrals are isolated to their own arc fault circuits only

Hi,

I just completed a total conversion from a brake shop to a home. We installed arc fault breakers throughout. (required by code). However, I also have a small welder that I use from time to time. It naturally trips the arc fault breakers. I would like to keep all of the breakers but was wondering if there were some sort of shielded receptacle. Any thoughts?

Are AFCB's supposed to get warm under normal use or does that mean there is a problem?

bedrooms with arc fault interrupters
when a .9 amp computer monitor is plugged in it trips the arc fault thing.
Plan is to replace in the bedroom used for the computor which is really an office.
Nothing else is on during this .9 monitor plug in.

I just installed an arc fault breaker and it has an exaust fan on the circuit. and when i use the varispeed control the breaker trips. What can i do to make this work?

Most AFCI breakers have GFCI protection built into them. The only thing to be aware of is the GFCI protection of an AFCI breaker is often at about 10mA to 30mA instead of the 5mA safety threshold of a GFCI breaker or receptacle

Nuisance tripping of AFCI breakers is a very common and hot button subject for electricians. The problem is that AFCI breakers are specifically designed to sense what is known as a series arc. most motors found in common house hold motors use brushes that to an AFCI appear to be a series arc. I also would not plug that treadmill into an extension cord (especially the cheep 16AWG cords most home owners buy) I'm sure the owners manual will say the same thing. I own 3 space heaters that can tell when you are using an extension cord and will not turn on the heating element when plugged into an extension cord. TDR microprocessors are nifty aren't they? Inrush current to the treadmill motor could also be the problem.

Dennis's problem sounds more like a multi wire branch circuit problem then a "small short" (what ever that is) AFCI breakers are much like any GFCI device or breaker and have a line and load side. You can not currently use an AFCI on a multi wire branch circuit. If you have two ungrounded conductors sharing one grounded conductor (not to be confused with the grounding conductor) The AFCI senses return current on the grounded conductor but not on the ungrounded conductor and trips.

The National Electrical Code for 2008 requires arc-fault breakers on all circuits for lights and convenence outlets other than those that are GFCI protected. In a flouresent light an arc is emposed at each end of the tube with gas within it to produce a light. I have seen a arc-fault breaker fail to hold this circuit when there was nothing wrong except the normal thing that a flouresent fixture does. My question is this, will the arc fault handle the compact flouresent lights that everyone is buying to conserve energy?

Would it be likely for Compact Fluorescent bulbs to cause an arc fault breaker to trip? Someone mentioned that linear fluorescent tubes caused an arcfault breaker to trip.

I recently put up two outdoor ceiling fans, I tied it to the upstairs bedroom- now I am tripping my 15amp arc breaker randomly. I had a electrian look at it and swap arc breakers with other rooms- the breaker stills trips- I can't find the source of where I am getting an arc- Can I replace the arc braker with a traditional 20 amp breaker?

About a week ago my spare bedroom and my daughters bedroom lights and outlets were not working. Checked the breaker box and found the arc fault breaker tripped. Reset breaker and everything came back on. Next day did it again. Seems to be happening in the middle of the night. We use these 2 rooms all the time and the breaker does not trip. I checked for loose wire nuts on they were tight. I am thinking the breaker might be bad. What do you think?

I own a house that was built around 1953; so I predate neutral wires by around a decade. I am interested in taking extra precautions to protect my family and home from fire but I was curious if arc faults will function without the neutral wire. I have upgraded the breaker box as well as a few circuits within the house. All outlets have been replaced and are now GFI protected. Generally I trust the existing wiring but better safe than sorry right? Thanks for your help.

An acquaintance of mine had the same problem with the treadmill and his vacuum cleaner setting of the AFCI. Traditional breakers allow full functionality. It was suggested that the AFCIs do not work well with inductive loads. Would something in the mechanics of an AFCI lend to supporting this hypothesis?

What is the city code in San antonio for ARC Breakers. i can't get the city to call me and let me know. the kitchen, bedrooms Etc.. Found that these are 35. apiece her in SA Texas. I've got 19 breakers

Hi Tim I am an electrician of over 25 years. Arc fault works on the same basis as a ground fault, it senses un even flow from the line to nautural. a motor would have problems being on an arc fualt because of the suerge to power up the mill causing it to trip out the breaker.the same would happen if it was to bogg out from over working.
not all arc fault breakers will sense or guage the difference between the arc of turning on a light switch to an un wanted arc in an electrcial device.
oh you can use arc fualt in line with a GFCI outlet.the bath room light stays on because it is wired to the line side of the gfi circuit.

The arc breaker for the bedroom keeps tripping. It will not reset. Can breakers go bad? The house is 6 years old.

breakers can go bad, but not as often as an electronic device. unplug all items see if the breaker resets, if it resets, plug bed room items in one at a time. if or when the breaker trips you have found the problem.if that doesn't work I would call a local electrician

Being a fridge tech I have seen house hold refrigerators burn down due to faulty comp overloads, defrost heating circuts, or over heated condenser fans. I have also been told that a fridge creates to many arks during the time clock switching cycles for defrost in order to operate with an AFCI. Could an ark fault breaker be employed on a dedicator freezer or fridge circut?

Any motor that Has a Large start up draw of power would cause a sensing type breaker to trip, if it didn't have a time delay built in. even though frig condensers are submurged in oil, it would require a time delay for it to be put on a GFCI type breaker. arc fault would not work.

I'm an insurance agent & I have a large condo association that has aluminum wiring. They want to install "AFCI" as a means of reducing their premium. I'm not quite sure what AFCI (something to do with circuit breakers) & how will this, if any, affect or should I say, help the fact that they have aluminum wiring. Evidently this is a more cost effective way to go rather than correct the situation. Let me know what you think.

Is the new Arc Breaker required by code by any municipality in Allegheny Count, PA ?

What makes the Acr-fault breaker work and why does it trip when the neutral in the circuit is shorted to ground in an outlet box?

Rick