Hot Water Recirculating Pumps

I have an instantaneous water heater in the basement. Hot water takes up to a minute to make it to the shower and to the kitchen sink. what is the best recirculating pump or system to use in this situation. thanks!

I name the pump in a sister column on the website. Clue: it begins with the letter g.

So where is this sister column on the website that names what you think is the best recirculating pump. I can't find it. Thanks.

Bob,
I just went to the top of this page and typed "recirculating pump" into the search engine and Ta Da!!!! Look at the results. Behold the power of the AsktheBuilder search engine! :->

I have a recirculting pump with a timer attached to a water heater. The pump is attached to the drain outlet of the tank. This was installed when the house was built Oct. 2006. After a few weeks liveing in the house we began hearing a sound of steam releasing just like a steam iron. At time it loud and at times it is faint. Do you have any suggestions? Thank you

Victor,
I have no suggestions other than to contact the manufacturer and see if they say it is normal.

Help!! I've been having a disagreement with our builder for the year that we've lived in the house. We have a walk-in shower with 10 foot ceilings. Problem is when the weather cools of in South Texas, it feels like we have about two minutes to shower if we plan to not freeze to death while showering. We have a TACO pump but it doesn't seem to be enough to correct the problem. We have tried adjusting the thermostat on the electric water heater but for obvious reasons that's not the best alternative. I'm guessing the pipe run from heater to shower head is about 50feet. Can you give me any suggestions?

Laurie,
Your comment leaves me shaking my head. What is the relationship between the ceiling height and running out of hot water? If you are saying that hot water only flows for two minutes and then turns cold, then I say you have a defective dip tube. Read all about those in another column of mine.

I have been thinking about the efficiency of the circulating loop. My son just moved into a new home with a unit. His cold water is no longer cold, but rather warm. His hot water is hot immediately. My concern is the amount of energy that is lost with the hot water continually running through the pipes. Has anyone conducted a study as to the relationship of wasted water to wasted energy?

Thank you

Richard

I am on my 4th recirc pump (3 TACOs) in 1 year (new construction with warranty coverage). We have hard water and are now being told that the constant hot water increases sediment (which we see and have replaced 3 showerheads as well) and this will be a recurrent problem. We also get only lukewarm water to our master/kitchen downstairs but great hot water to the upstairs baths and 1 downstairs bath. Any ideas on decreasing sediment and is true about the hot water causing it? (We've flushed both heaters twice this year already.) Also what problems could be causing the imbalance in our system? Our plumber just cannot seem to fix it (30+ visits/1 year...) All plumbed out...

Susan,
My high school chemistry class notes show that heat can accelerate reactions, so maybe it can increase the rate of precipitation.....
It sounds like you have an inferior piping design. You need to bring in a mechanical engineer who designs hot water systems for hotels and hospitals.

There is a pump available at my local Home Depot that claims to work on any hot water system. My house does not have a hot water return going back to the hot water heater so I'm thinking this might be the way to go. It's only $200 and all the reviews that have been left claim that it is EXTREMELY easy as a do-it-yourself project. Could you please check it out and let me know if it is a good system to use?
http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImage/e339de60-c9f8-4d36-b9ec-131386f77 441.pdf

Thanks,

Brad

Brad,

Why not look at the pump that is in the photo to this column? It is a Grundfos one. There is very little I have ever seen at HD that I would put in my own hme for what that is worth.

I have a taco recirc pump. My shower is about 125 ft from the heater. My HWH tank rust out and leaks about every 18 months to 2 years. I have a large water softner before the heater. Rumor has it recirc systems will promote decay of the tank. Any news on this subject ??

I theorize the recirc has entrapped air. Air with water will accelerate corrosion. Maybe the line needs a air strainer prior to the tank or something to keep the air out of the tank while circulating. OTHER COMMENTS: 1)10 ft ceilings in the showers will be cold, large areas in the shower allow air to convect -the hot water force causes a natural current, (large showers are taboo, dont build them), 2)Over rate your water softner by 30 to 50 % and make sure it is prior to Ur HWH. 3)Install a good size filter from ur water 'in' prior to the water softner for sediment removal. Change the filter about once a year -depending.

Gary,
You need to contact the water-heater local factory rep. Air would *never* stay in the tank, it would bubble / float to the highest part of the system and spurt out when you opened valves.

I had a circulating loop installed and a new water heater about 6 months ago, a timer was not installed, the plumber installed a drain spout that empties into my wash basin (located next to water heater); is it normal for water to drain from they system for 20 - 30 minutes?

Lynn,
No. Maybe I am not understanding you, but a loop should be a closed system.

I have a recirculating hot water pump and when we set the breakers (due to a disposal issue) something happened and now the hot water takes forever as before it was instant. ?And the water pressure in the furthest room has changed as well. Do you have any suggestions as to what might be wrong?

Gynelle,
It sounds like two issues. Electrical for the heater and a sediment issue for the far-away fixture.

Tim, whenever i turn my hot water handles my pipes bang very loud,i made sure i got all the air out of the lines ,but it just keeps on getting worse.any suggestions would be helpful. thankyou

CPD,
Read all of my columns about Water Hammer.

I saw that you recommended the Grundfos from the picture. It looks real easy to install. I already have a power outlet in the attic where my 2 hot water heaters are located. The Master bath is on the far side of the house on 1st floor. Do you believe it to be better than the Laing AutoCirc that goes under the farthest sink? They both seem to be comparably priced, but I'd have to install an outlet under the sink for the Laing. What are your thoughts?

I own a Watts Premier hot water recirculating system and it has worked great for me and my family for many years. I have saved a ton of money on my water bill!!! They also carry water filtration systems that I am looking into purchasing.

Jim,
I think my thoughts are in the column above. :->

We have a new home with a recirc pump connected to the bottom of the water heater. The home was built with an insulated loop line, not a retrofit. The instant hot water aspect works fine. However, our cold water is now luke warm. The house is under warranty still, and we had the plumber out. He said that the pump was back pressurizing the cold line. I thought about that, and it doesn't make any sense. I don't see how there should be any connection between hot and cold sides unless they somehow buggered the plumbing and are using a cold line for return somewhere instead of the insulated loop line that we paid for. Is warm water from the cold tap common in recirc systems? I'd love to hear any explanations for this effect. Thanks -- Eric

Eric,
You are correct. There might be a cross connection someplace. If the recirculation loop is only feeding the hot-water supply lines, how could water get back into the cold water system other than to flow back up through the cold-water inlet at the heater. To prevent this, there is supposed to be a check valve at the cold-water side of the heater.

Our house is about 12 years old. Last week we had 2 slab leeks at the same time. We have had that fixed. Right after these repairs our water in our shower will run for about 4-5 min and then turn cold. After about 4-5 mins it's hot again. This goes on all day. I had the same plumbers out that did the slab leek and they checked the water heater and all elements and nothing was wrong. The water heater is about two years old. There is something wrong but they are not looking past the water heater. What else could be causing this problem. These are very reputable plumbers.
Thanks,
Kay

Kay,
Maybe at the same time the dip tube in the heater went bad...... Install a new one.

I read 2 different comments that mentioned luke warm water coming from the cold supply with the recirculating systems that use the cold supply for return lines. Is this true? If so, now you have to wait for cold water?
Thankyou,
Scott

Scott,
There is a problem in the setup when that happens.

I want to disconect my recirculating pump since it has quit working. Can I just disconnect it or do I need to consider or need to do something other than just unplug it!

Approximately 3 weeks ago I was hearing water running in the pipe by my shower, there is no evidence of water leakage in the ceiling and it is not heard anywhere else. Then the water was not so hot anymore. My neighbor came over and said your water heater is going. Ok, so I put on a new water heater and we notice that the circulation pump, the outside of it was quite hot, there is no timer on it, we shut it off at the breaker. I still hear the water running in the lines and the water is only warm with the new heater, not hot, in fact you cannot use any cold or the water is cold. Plumber's answer is get a larger water heater, I don't think so, the water never ran thru the lines like that before.. Any help?

I am installing a Watts hot water recirc pump in a five bedroom rancher. How often should I set the recirc timer?

Hi,

I am a single woman first time homeowner. I own a two-family brownstone in NYC. In the basement I have two hot water heaters. They seem to be hooked in parallel and not one heater per apartment (I don't know this for a fact). The brownstone has four floors: the first floor has a shower, bath, kitchen; second floor has a half bath and kitchen, third floor has a shower, bath, and washer/dryer; and the fourth floor has a shower, jacuzzi bath and double sink. The problem is the fourth floor. I takes a bit more than 10 minutes to get hot water to the shower and a few minutes to get hot water to the sink.
Would a recirculating pump help this and would I have to purchase the comfort valve for all the different shower/baths/washers/kitchens on the other floors as well? Or is something else wrong with my plumbing?

I had a separate water line installed for circulating the hot water when we had our house built and it has works ok.� Our systems has the return line connected into the supply line at the top of the tank. I have observed other systems similar to ours but they connect in at the drain valve on the bottom.� Connecting at the bottom seems the better way.� If I changed ours would it work better?

I live in an apartment building where very often, mostly early morning, the water coming out of the "cold" tap comes out scalding hot. The "hot" tap is hot water as well. I can't seem to get a clear explanation why this is happening. It did start happening shortly after work was done in the building and in my bathroom. Also can only have baths because I can't regulate the water in the shower other than scalding hot.

We have a recirculating hot water system in our 7.5-year-old home to our master bath which is the furthest room from the hot water heater. We are now on our 4th or 5th leak in the copper pipe for this. All leaks but one was closest to the hot water heater and the recirc. system. The other leak was in our finished basement ceiling - and ruined dry wall, etc. Is this going to be a recurring event with this system? Some folks we have spoke with have had this problem. Should we take out this luxury system to avoid any further leaks? Or do you know what could be causing this? They seem to be pin-hole leaks. Thanks for your assistance!

A water softener is the only way I know to eliminate hard water. As for the circulator problem I try the redytemp system. We chose them to avoid the hard water problems your experiencing. It cost a bit more but we wanted the calcium proof features as well as the adjustable temperature function. We've had ours for over four years without any problems.

Install water treatment equipment for water softening like something on this site http://www.waterking.com/
Do not heat water above 120�F because scaling is progressive after that temperature.
What type of water-tap you have in kitchen?
If you ever had normally hot water in master/kitchen and you only recently don't have hot water, then it could be because of sediments or bad water-tap. Try to change water-tap.
If you never had warm water there, then instalation is not properly done.

please help! I work in a 5 story bldg that has HW circulating problems. You have to run the HW for several minutes to get HW. The water on the Hot side of the faucet is ice cold at times. Where can the cold water be migrating into the hot side?? There is a common HW return line in the bldg.
Thanks

Can a recirculating pump be used in conjunction with a tankless gas water heater?
thanks!

Hey Bob, any idea how much noise these under the counter recirc pumps make? I am remodeling my masterbath and want to be Greener by not wasting so much water waiting on the hot to make it up. Since I am in the shower by 5:30am it would be unfortunate if these pumps were noisy. Thanks

I have problems with my recir pump casuing my pipes to break down and pin size hole in the pipes keep occuring after 4 to 5 years. Is this normal?

I have a 100 gallon gas hot water heater for 19 apartments with a timer on the recirculating pump that can be set for two times. I want to reduce wear and tear on the hot water system. What time periods should the timer be set to turn the reciculating pump on and off to provide reasonable hot water service to the tenants but reasonably limit the wear and tear on the hot water pipes caused by the recirculating pump?

We just moved into a home a few months ago. The home is fairly new - built in 2004 and has a recirculating valve on the water heater. Recently, the water service to our house was interrupted because of a broken water main. We didn't know about it until we used all the water in the water heater. The recirculating valve was make a funny noice (almost like an alarm). After water service was returned to our house, we no longer have instant hot water. Was the recirculating valve damaged or so I have to do something to make it work again, like prime it or something? I've looked at it and don't see anything that looks like a reset switch or anything. Any advice?

I had a circulator pump installed in our closed loop hot water system when our house was built in 2001. I have two switches controlling the pump; one by the pump and one in our master bath which I can turn off at bed time or when traveling.
Would it be benefical to add a 15 minute on-off timer so that the pump doesn't run all day? Right now I can hardly tell the difference in the daily gas usage whether the pump is on or off.

HI there it seems like we wait for ever to get hot water inour show and our sinks, I have read about and concidered installing a hot water recirculating pump. most that are on the market today us the cold water line as a return line. how exactly does that work, there should be presure there for the cold water. how can you force hot water back through it? where does it go if does go through the cold water lines? I'm not a plumber but I'm pretty sure that my cold water line does not go back to my hot water tank. can you explain how this all works? if it does use the cold water line, is the cold water still COLD???
thanks

I agree with the energy issue. What about a local electric heater. I've seen products that fit into the wall cavity space for single appliances. i am unaware of how they compare with circulating pumps in terms of efficiency but i think its worth looking into.

How high does the hot water line pressure go when the pump is on before the tap is opened? Or, how much above house pressure does the pump provide?

To the gentleman named "Richard Meyer" who was interested in the the difference between wasted water and wasted energy... I don't think the main reason people install these pumps (I am one of them) has to do with wasted water. Of course, none of us wants to waste water or energy, but that isn't the primary motivation for installing such a pump. Speaking for myself and friends who have one, we installed it because we wanted hot water to be instantly available at every sink and shower.

However, I believe I can say that relatively little energy is wasted for several reasons:

1. How often does one really want cold water at a tap? Isn't warm or hot water usually what we turn the faucet or shower on for? The only time we really want cold water is for a drink, and ice cubes solve that instantly (if the water is warm), and many people don't drink tap water anyway.

2. In a system without a pump, you have to draw the hot water the distance of the heater to the sink/shower/tub you are using, but energy is still wasted. After you are done with the hot water, it sits in the line losing heat until it is the temperature of the environment it is in (the ground, a wall, whatever). How different is that from a system with a pump?

As our resident "AsktheBuilder" said, the best pump has a timer on the pump and a valve at the farthest sink/shower/tub. This means that you can run the pump just a few hours a day if you like, and it stops pumping when the valve cuts the flow. If you have a pump with a timer and the cut-off valve, you drastically reduce the energy loss.

3. Radiant water heating (with pipes running under the floor) is an optional install in higher-end production homes and custom homes. A recirculating pump produces a kind of "unintentional" radiant heating, which is useful in the winter. In other words, in the winter there is no energy waste, the heat (to a very small extent) warms the home, reducing the amount your furnace runs. In the summer of course, this would not be advantageous. However, if you live in an area of the world/country where it is cold/cool a good deal of the year, the energy loss is probably nil because it actually (again, in a very minuscule amount) reduces the energy usage of your furnace.

When you factor in all these points, not only do you realize that the energy loss is very minor, but you have even more reason to want this device. Warm water is always available (which is the kind you most often would want), water waste is basically eliminated and (most importantly) there is no waiting for hot water... ever.

I've had this installed in my home for two years. I put it in when I installed our new water heater. I did all the work myself, it was easy (but then, I am a carpenter and a "handy" person). My family *loves* it. We liked the idea of it before I put it in, but we loved it after we began using it. I can't really communicate how pleasant it is. Perhaps it is simply my family's personal taste, but friends and family who have spent the night (or a few days) at our home love it as well. It is one of those things that you just don't realize how nice it is until you have it. It's a big time saver too. You turn on the shower when you're in it, as opposed to turning it on a few minutes before you get in. Every time you wash your hands the water is warm. It's just a really nice touch in a home.

I, like you, was concerned about wasting energy, but I have seen no (discernable) difference in my energy usage/cost. I am conservative with the timer, but it's not complicated. Everyone is out of the house by 8:30 am on weekdays, and no one is using hot water until after 5pm. So, I simply have the pump kick on about 30 minutes before we get up, and kick off about 30 minutes before we leave in the morning. I have it turn back on again about 5pm, and off again at 8pm. We all shower in the morning, it's not planned that way, I just realized one day that we all showered in the morning.

So, it's really simple to set the timer with our habits/schedule. Although it's set up to run for five hours per day (combined) it doesn't run that long at all because of the cut-off valve. Once the water reaches 98 degrees (Fahrenheit) at the farthest sink, the valve shuts off and the pump shuts off. I work out in the garage a good deal and I hear it turning on and off and it runs very little, you get a lot of bang for your buck.

If you have to run the hot water for minutes at your shower (any one of them), trust me, you want this device. Your kids and your wife will love you and think you're a magician especially if you install it yourself. If you have a modicum of "do it yourself" (DIY) skills, you can install this pump. If you live in a relatively new home, it couldn't be any easier, because most of the connection are screw-on flex tubing. The pump installs directly on top of the hot water heater, all you do is unscrew the line from the water heater, put the pump in and reconnect. If it's hard-plumbed then you have some work, but with compression fittings and flex line it would be easy. At the farthest sink, you simply disconnect the lines under the sink from the cut-off valves and put the valve in between. My pump had the flex lines — to go from the valve to the hot and cold on the sink — included in the box. If you have screw-on flex tubing, it's a snap. If it's hard plumbed (which is rare) you have some work to do. I can't go into detail, but even if it's hard-plumbed there is an easy work-around for that (which involves unscrewing the lines from the sink). Point being, in most cases, installing this pump is very easy for someone with even rudimentary DIY skills.

Whew, I really wrote a little tome there didn't I? Haha. I guess you can tell I like this device and I had a little free time today. Anyway, I hope that answered some questions for any folks that ended up here on this wonderful site. ;-)

A recirculation pump with a dedicated return line and a timer has two problems:

1) Most of the time the pump is running, it is not needed
2) When Hot water is needed, the pump is often not running.

I solved the problem with a unique "on-demand" control that turns on the pump when the hot water anywhere in the house is turned on. Please see the image at

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr167/PRYGAARD/RecirculationControl.png

1) On the cold water IN on the Hot Water tank, a flow switch is installed that turns on when it detects flow. (Note: This can *not* be anywhere in the circulation loop)

2) A Delay-Off timer turns the pump on immediately when the Flow Switch turns on, but does not turn off the pump for a while after the flow switch is turned off. (The delay time needs to be adjusted for the characteristics of the particular installation. Typical times range from 30-90 seconds)

3) An aquastat is used to turn off the pump when the farthest faucet in the loop reaches temp.
When the hot water is turned on, the pump comes on and hot water arrives fairly quickly (but not instantly). The innovation is this: Turn the hot water on for a second and then turn it back off...and the pump keeps going for a while. Then just wait for a little bit and turn the Hot water back on...it is hot and ready to use. However, after the water is turned off, the pump will run for the delay time and then stops till the next time there is demand.
Flow Switch: Gems 26605 (I got it cheap on ebay).

I used the following parts:

(http://www.gemssensors.com/ApplicationSearchResults.asp?nQuestionID=36 ) Others are available, but be sure to get one that has a fairly low trip point on the flow. (.75 – 1 GPM)

Delay off Timer: MX046 timer kit. (15 second to 6 min delay)
(http://www.bakatronics.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=466) It is inexpensive but you must build it into a case. There are other delay-off timers and relays available but this seems to be the cheapest option.

Aquastat: Grundfos ½” Clip on.

I think I agree with Richard Meyer's comments, for sure this system will not save money (water is much cheaper than electricity). I guess if you have the system with a timer, you need to ask yourself if your showers are always at the same time, or do they vary... And also do you enjoy brushing your teeth with warm water or not (I sure don't!!)

I have a gas water heater and have plenty of hot water most of the time. The only time I run into a problem is in the morning. My showers tend to be warm at best, but if I shower at night I have a wonderful hot shower. What can I do to have nice and hot showers in the morning. I am the only one who showers in the morning.
Thank you.
Gina

I constantly run out of hot water will this instant hot water recirculating system solve that problem and save me money, or do I need to just purchase a bigger hot water heater.

I have a Taco circulating pump.
There is a ticking noise in the walls upstairs in only 2 of the bedrooms. If I unplug the pump the noise is gone. Does this mean I need an new pump? Are they easy to install?
which are the best ones?
thank you.

I have a old rental home that has almost no crawl space. The hot water line runs out of top of the water heater up through the ceiling back down a wall at bath tub and back under the floor an then to kitchen sink. It takes a very long time to get hot water to the kitchen and I am wondering about putting a circulating pump on the hot water line to help with this problem as well as a freezing problem with the hot water line.
Most winters it does't freeze if they remember to let the hot water run which is getting expensive to heat the water then let it run down the drain. I can get a line from the kitchen to the water heater and I wonder if a circulating pump would solve my freezing problem.
Cold water takes a warmer route and is not affected

sounds like you need to install a water treatment plant to remove the hardness out of your water,and if i was your plumber and couldnt fix the problem in the first 5 visits i would get another plumber for you. The showerheads can be cleaned with a product called CLR Calicum,Lime,Rust remover you may have to search for this product
From wikipedia:
Permanent hardness
Permanent hardness is hardness (mineral content) that cannot be removed by boiling. It is usually caused by the presence of calcium and magnesium sulfates and/or chlorides in the water, which become more soluble as the temperature rises. Despite the name, permanent hardness can be removed using a water softener or ion exchange column, where the calcium and magnesium ions are exchanged with the sodium ions in the column.

Hard water causes scaling, which is the left over mineral deposits that are formed after the hard water had evaporated. This is also known as limescale. The scale can clog pipes, ruin water heaters, coat the insides of tea and coffee pots, and decrease the life of toilet flushing units.

I am thinking of using a recirculating pump to pump hot water thru under tile tubes to create radiant heating in a one room studio. Could that work? Is there any way to control the temperature of the water?

Why would a hot water recirculating pump not operate when I turn the manual switch from the "TIMER" to the "ON" position? I checked the power and that was OK. It did have a mop leaning against it restricting the airspace around it. Does it cease operating when it gets overheated? I checked it later after I removed the mop and it now works OK.

Dear sir,
i am working in shipbuilding company ,where i have looking after HOT & COLD water system.In this i want to know that hot water system.we are referring some standards naval standards. in that they have clearly written that they want hot water pump at recirculating line of calorifier so tell wil this system will work.coz suppose when hot water pump working at that time anyone has open tap then air will trap in the line which pump will suck cavitation will occur . but i have seen many shipyard has submit thier system with this concept kindly tell tell us how the system will work suggest us some good litrature

I'm studen..i want to no about distribution of service hot and cold water supply..? What the provision for the distribution of services within building and storage space requirement.?.What the types of hot and cold Water supply systems and suggest a suitable hot and cold water supply system..?gives reason for choosing the system..thank you...

I believe your math is incorrect on the amount of water wasted. A cylinder of .75" x 300" (25') would contain ~530 cubic inches of water, or about 1/3 of a cubic foot or about 2.5 gallons of water each time you shower. With low-flow shower heads that's equivalent to taking a minute-longer shower each time.

Cecil,

I believe your calculations are off. It appears that you squared the diameter of the pipe to get your results. If you did, you would end up with 0.306 cubic feet. (.75*.75*3.14159*300)/1726 = 0.306.

However the formula for volume of a cylinder is the radius squared x PI x height. (.375*.375*3.14159*300)/1726 = 0.076, as Tim indicated in his column.

I have been monitoring my electric usage now for a year after installing the recirc pump, comparing and contrasting with bills from the same months, for a total of five years back. I cannot find any appreciable difference in my bill. Of course there are many variable, but I have factored price and any conditions which might affect said.

On two separate mornings I monitored energy usage at the meter, one morning with the pump running and one with it off (much to my family's chagrin on the "off" day) - the difference in energy usage was minuscule. I tried to be very careful to alert everyone to do nothing exotic on either morning so that all variables would be equal. My water heater is gas, and I watched that meter as well. The heater did run a tiny bit longer on the "pump on" day, but not more than a few pennies worth.

So, I'm pleased with the energy usage of the unit. Of course, as I said, there are other variables I haven't covered, but the bottom line is I feel okay about using the pump for several reasons. One, my family loves having hot water instantly from the tap, and I like making my family happy. Two, I'd rather "waste" energy than water. I don't care if wasting energy is more expensive than wasting water, I feel a lot better about "wasting" a few pennies worth of energy than dumping gallons of good, clean water down the drain waiting on it to get hot. Lastly, on the brushing your teeth issue - I have found that the water gets cold in seconds flat. So, when I turn the water on to wet my brush, the water is a bit warm, but by the time I put the toothpaste on the brush and run it again under the sink, the water is cold. I don't need to leave it running while I brush (which is wasteful anyway) for it to get cold.

In my opinion it is a great device with a lot of pluses and very few (if any) minuses. If you're like me and you enjoy hot water instantly at the tap, and if given the choice you'd rather waste energy than water... get a recirc pump.

Hi
I recently installed a return loop to the hot water heater drain valve and insulated it as much as possible. Now I have warm water faster but I seem to be losing heat as I've had to turn up the water heater and I now run out of hot water which is new.

Is there anything I can do?

Susan P, I would like to know more about your source of information for the increased sediment. What is the status of the cause and solution to the sediment problem?
Thanks.

My house is a 55 yr. old rancher with a gravity fed recirculating hot water loop in the attic. It worked wonderfully until I made the mistake of installing a tankless water heater. Now it takes 4-5 minutes for hot water to reach the farthest shower. Any ideas?

You speak about recirculation pump systems and I would like to throw in another wrinkle. How do you deal with an indirect hot water maker instead of a stand alone heater and if the maker is at the lowest point in the home can you make the connection of the loop at the point where the riser that services the 2nd floor goes vertical. I live in rural new york and we have well water and I wish it took only a few seconds to get hot water to any of the sinks in the house, we have to run the water for almost 2 minutes before warm (not hot) water begins to flow. Hope you can help, thanks Bill whyard

FOR PLACES HAVING HIGH QTY. OF SOLTS ( TDS = 1000 )WHAT IS THE SOLUTION ?

I was always taught to use cold water for cooking, but with a recirculation pump it sounds like the cold water tap gives a mixture of fresh cold water and water that had been in the water heater tank. Wouldn't this be less healthy?

We were away from our house for eight days. Neighbors said thunderstorm knocked out electricty while we were gone. When we got back recirculating pump didn't work. I checked the breaker box. House is eight years old. Is there anything else I can check or is just coincidence that pump went out while we were gone?

I have a grund FOS type up 15-18 su 115 V 60Hz Class F 10 UF. PUMP, I replaced it exactly like the one I took off. Its located at the bottom of my water heater. Is there a particular way the pump should be in order for the water direction to flow? The pump gets very hot and it still takes a long time to get hot water to my sinks that are not far from to pump. This pump does not have a timer.
Thank you

we have hot water pump, after repair we got hot and cold cycle, instead of continuous hot water. any solution?

We just had a home built in June of 09 and our builder insisted on installing a resurc pump (with timer). It sounded like a great idea, since we live in the desert and I'm all for saving water. However, when the timer is set to be off (i.e. during mid day) and we need to take a shower it takes a really long time for our water to heat up. Like 5+ minutes. I asked our plumber and he said they must have plumbed the master shower at the end of the line. Not sure why they'd do that, when its the most used fixture in the house. My question is, does it sound like a mistake was made? Or does the resurc pump being set to off affect the normal operation of the water heater? It just feels like even without it, 5 min is a long time to wait for hot water.
Your advise is appreciated.
-Jessica

My fiance and I are currently moving into an 8*32 camper to live for the next 2 years. Problem #1 - 6 gallon water heater = 3 minute shower. Suggestions?
Problem #2 - Soap and shampoo will be in the shower drainage water running back into the hot water heater with a recirculation pump. Is that okay?

Tim,

I read the articles and comments about recirculating pumps. I plan to call a plumber to install a recirculating pump under the furthest outlet, which is the kitchen sink. I would have the temperature control set up in the basement next to the water heater. At least this is what I got out of my reading. Will it work to resolve the problems below and be the correct way to set up?

My home water system in my two story house, with partial basement, is a really a disaster in waiting. Three years ago the line to the kitchen, under the part of the house without the basement or crawlspace, sprung a leak while I was away for a month or so.

The repair plumber retrofitted the pipes to go to the kitchen (furthest point away from the heater and home water intake) through the attic. This was a major job, partly, because the attic is non-livable space, different heights and divided up by walls. It cost me more than $5000 not covered by insurance.

Now, I normally have a good water supply throughout the house. A minor problem for me is that hot water at the kitchen takes a long time (1-2 minutes) to arrive.

Last winter that pipe in the attic froze and broke when I was home, but away for an hour. Before the housekeeper discovered the leak, and managed to find someone to turn off the water, I ended up with $6000 + water damage. (covered by insurance) and $6000 in additional repairs not covered.

This was despite having the pipe and attic well insulated, or so I thought. After the last break, I was told the pipe needed more insulation because the attic was still too cold and I only can hope the repair people did insulate the pipe better.

Now, I am on my third winter and am very afraid that this pipe could freeze and break again. One suggestion was to put in a recirculating pump. Will it work?

I have a Grundfos hot water recirculation system that I would like to install, my question is can I use this with a return line instead of using the temperture control valve under the sink? Or could I connect cap off the cold water input and connect the cold water output of the valve to a return line?

My home has a full basement, with a main floor and a second floor above the basement. At present I have a TACO Recirculating pump that serves as a loop to the main floow kitchen sink. I also have it attached to a timer. For all other water appliances we wait a long time for the hot water. My question is: Can I elimiated the loop, purchase the value and install it under the bathroon sink on the top floor (furthest from the water heater). My pump is attached to the bottom of the water heater. Thank You.

I have a off peak electric hot water heater. The Co-op says i can not attach a recirculation pump to the bottm of the tank, bad idea. So i was wondering if it would be a good idea to attach one above my mixer valve? Or would this just circulate cool water, or actually pull hot water out of the tank? Thank you

I recently installed a new water heater myself with a recirculating pump. My problem is that now I have to turn the hot water hotter in the shower to keep the water hot. I seem to have less control of the temperature now.

What could I have doen wrong, or is something possiblty defective?

My house had a recirculation pump but I had it removed when I got a new hot water tank last year because the old pump was corroded and it ran all the time. But, now it takes forever to get hot water to the back of the house and I want to reinstall a pump. So, I bought a new recirculation pump (starts with “g”) with a timer and want to connect it back up. The instructions recommend returning the hot water from the pump back to the Hot Water Tank Drain which is where my questions originate. You see, my house was originally plumbed with a hot water return loop which comes out of the slab and into the closet right up beside my tank. Therefore, the area for the pump is rather tight...
1: Is it okay to put a tee at the cold water input at the top of the tank and feed the output of the pump back into there? If this is okay then will I need a check valve on the cold water line?
2: If I put a hose fitting at the output of the pump and feed a braided hose back into the hot water tank drain will the bends in the hose overwork the pump?

My house had a recirculation pump but I had it removed when I got a new hot water tank last year because the old pump was corroded and it ran all the time. But, now it takes forever to get hot water to the back of the house and I want to reinstall a pump. So, I bought a new recirculation pump (starts with “g”) with a timer. The instructions recommend returning the hot water from the pump back to the Hot Water Tank Drain which is where my questions originate. You see my house was originally plumbed with a hot water return loop which comes out of the slab and into the closet right up beside my tank which makes the space for the pump rather tight:
1: Is it okay to put a tee at the cold water input at the top of the tank and feed the output of the pump back into there? If this is okay then will I need a check valve on the cold water line?
2: If I put a hose fitting at the output of the pump and feed a braided hose back into the hot water tank drain will the bends in the hose overwork the pump?

I'm considering on buying the recirc pump posted on this page but when I go to the Mfr's website, there is no complete instructions on how to install it (plumbing)could you please poast or email me a hand writen picture or literature of how it is installed.
Thanks

we just bought house, took a shower and used the hot water for a day. then no hot water for master and kitchen. I noticed the recirculating pump was not plugged in, so i just did that, but still not hot water through the pipes to master & kitchen. the upstairs bath is the only faucet that gets hot water. what could be wrong? how do I fix it? the kitchen is close to the water heater & recirculating pump. the master upstairs.

Just a note about your calculations there...

25 feet of 3/4" pipe contains .3068 cubic feet: 25*pi*(.75/12)^2 = .3068 ft^3

So it would only take you a little over 19 showers to cost a buck at 1.6 cents per cubic ft. That's considerable, even at that low price.

I have just installed the recirculating pump your mention, with the programmable timer, made by Watts, that requires being plugged in near the water heater where it is installed. Here are my concerns. It seems whenever it is not "on" we hear a water knock any time water is turned on or off anywhere in the house (one story, 1948), even with a flush. What is this doing to my 1948 pipes? Are we better off dealing with the cold water than risking damage to pipes or worse, water damage due to a break in the pipes? It's nifty to have the hot water at 6 AM, but at what risk? Also, how much energy is it drawing when the timer is on? We find we need it on for about two 5 hour windows to stretch from the first shower to the last face washing. Water is darned expensive here and we've had very strict usage allowances due to drought. (CA). Are we dooming our old pipes to an expensive and early demise?
Thanks

We have a recirculating hot water heater. Is it normal for the floor above the hot water pipe to be warm in just that spot, or do we have a leak?

I have a new home with a recirculating loop installed.What type of pump do I need to decrease the amount of cold water wasted before I get the hot? Can I install it the heater?

Being green is important to our family and enjoy saving water and energy. Our loss of cold water at the grundfos bypass valve is our concern. What can we do, if anything, to prevent all of the bypass valves under our sinks from remaining open when we have no need for hot water? It would appear that even with the system off (we confirmed this again and again) the bypass valves keep allowing water from the hot water side of the bypass valve into our cold water pipes when brushing our teeth or running cold water because the water never seems to get cold anymore. We thought maybe a faulty valve, but there all staying open, as far as we can tell. If my cold water isn't really cold anymore it must mean water is mixing with some from the water heater. Is this normal? Does this mean our cold water use will effect our hot water heater?

My brother had problems with a pump system, even after he had purchased a replacement. I wouldn't recommend pump systems. What I do recommend is temperature controlled recirculating valve (the brand with the initials HWL). These things have a long 10 YEAR WARRANTY on them! I haven't ever had any problems with mine (or the ones i installed for my customers), but if something comes up, we're covered). These things really help during the winter, especially in an older home like mine. We get hot water in seconds. The install is really easy, since it uses the plumbing you already have.

Depending on your environment, the limited warm water returning in your cold water pipes will also help keep your pipes from freezing in the Winter and reduce condensation on your cold water pipes and commode in the Summer. Because the thermal convection (the rising of hot water and sinking of cooler water) takes place within the hot water tank, The HWL valve should work fine with hot water tanks below the valve, on the same level as the valve as well as hot water tanks on levels above the valve, pipes in attics, pipes in crawls, pipes in slabs, manifold systems (PEX), expansion tanks, vertical runs over 5-stories and linear runs over 250 ft.

We have a circulating pump on our hot water heater. When we go out of town we like to turn off the water to our home. With a circulating pump do we have to leave the water on or do we have to unplug the pump?

Thank you,
Lynn

We have a timer and a instant hot water to our master bath and it is eating up the propane to fast is there any way to shut this of so it is not working recirculating all the time in fact I dont want it to work anymore I can wait for hot water to get there.

If you opt to use the cold water supply line as the return loop, how does the cold water supply line stay cold?

I have the same problem Traci reported April 2010. I have a water recirculator, under-counter on a timer. Out of the blue (after 4 years) the bathroom faucet, toilet and one sprinkler valve started to beng loudly when turned off. After much work I traced it to the recirculator. It affects the bathroom outlets only if it is running. But if it is accidentally on when the sprinkler valve turns on, then the sprinkler will bang every time it's turned on, even if the recir pump is turned off. The only way to "reset" the sprinkler valve is to go through a variety of "water hammer" steps (turn off the main water valve, turn on all the outlets). A plumber looked at it and said I need a "hydrolic engineer" to tell me what's going on. (!)

It sounds like lots of us have troubles with the recirculators, and nobody (including the manufacturer) can explain what is causing the problems, or how to fix them. i can only say, Traci, you are not alone. If you have come up with any answer, please post it!

Hi im looking to find out how to recondison my water pump, i have a pellet burning heating sys and every year i have to change the pump out, can you help

I have heating problem in my apartment specially in bedroom, my landlord is installing a circulating pump in my bedroom.

I asked him whether the pump will make noise or not, he says he is going to install a good quality pump, i'm not sure about that, whether the pump going to be soundless or noisy.

I dont want to be disturbed by a noisy pump, what do you say.. ?

My hot water loop recirculating system was designed during the construction of the house, and works well with a pump on a timer and temperature switch. Unfortunately, when the pump has been off overnight and the pipes are cold, the system makes a terrible racket of pops and groans as the pipes heat up in the morning. This continues with later temperature cycling, but to a somewhat lesser extent. It's too late to isolate the pipes correctly--they are in the floor joists and walls. Would an expansion tank or other device in the hot water line beyond the water heater solve this? Is there an expansion tank device designed to handle hot water exposure? Perhaps one that is designed for a closed loop floor heating system?

I have some reservations about the .076 cubic foot figure. As anyone knows who has waited for water to get hot at the shower head or tap, it doesn't transition abruptly from cold to hot. As the first of the hotter water travels down the pipe, heat is lost to raise the temperature of the pipe and the slab around it is also absorbing heat. Only after the pipe is hot will the water at the shower reach its max temperature, although it may become tolerable before that. Also, if the farthest faucet is on a different branch, the effectiveness of a single recirculating device seems like it could be limited. Depending on the layout, it may help the shower but not so much the washer or the reverse. It might also be worth also mentioning that faulty mixer valves can complicate matters, allowing cold water into the hot side. I was changing my water heater and with the supply line shut off to the heater, and with the "hot side" opened at the kitchen tap, I had significant cold water flow. It may be possible to rework mixer valves, but I'm tempted to eliminate them in favor of separate hot and cold control.

I like the Richard Meyer question about heat loss. It would be good useful to see some numbers. Scott Cantrells question about warm water on the cold side seems like a necessary evil of any recirculating design that relies on the cold line as a return. This is also something that can happen with a faulty mixer valve, and not necessarily the one at the faucet where the symptom shows up.

I have a recirculator on my water heater and after a power outage my timer was off and I need to reset it. Can you direct me in how to do this.

Thanks,

Mary Jean

I am renovating a hosue that is 4500 sqft. It has 3 hot water heaters. I am thinking about removing one of them to utilize that space. To replace it I am thinking about putting in a recirc system from one of the other heaters. I have access to install a dedicated return line. The maximaum one direction run would be about 100 ft. Can anyone tell me if this is a good idea for energy conservation? I understand heat loss from the lines, but wouldn't I recoup that loss by not having the third heater? Also, are there any suggestions for recirc pumps, timers, thermostatic controls?

I've been very pleases with an innovative technology known as a “temperature controlled hot water recirculating valve” made by Hot Water Lobster. It uses your existing water pipes and the thermal convection generated by your water heater to circulate the water back to your water heater for reheating (not requiring a pump or any electricity). These systems have a temperature-controlled valve that allows the consumer to easily adjust the temperature to meet their particular needs. There is no water waste as it reduces the energy required to heat your water while it provides instant hot water to your faucets and showers. Installation was a simple DIY project (no pipe cutting, soldering or electrical connections).