Getting a New Hardwood Floor Level

When leveling your floor for hardwood installation, do you lay the shingles on the subfloor and then the tarpaper, or first the tarpaper, then the shingles?

I prefer to do the tar paper first.

I am in the same predicament where I have a couple of significant dips in my floor due to a high joist, likely due to excessive crown. If i do not have shingles could i use 3/16" mohogany subfloor to level the floor? If so, how do I minimize the impact of the edges of the sub floor patch? Would the laying of the felt paper over the patch be sufficient? Or should I sand the edges of the sub floor patch to make a smoother transition? I have already laid down the first 5 rows and will not reach this lower spot for probably another 5 rows of flooring.

Thanks in advance for the help

Ron,
You can use that thin plywood. Yes, sand the edges.

Unfortunately, I think i have a more complicated problem and am in desperate need for assistance. My kitchen and dining room share the same floor. I have installed cement board in the kitchen upto where I want the hard wood floor to begin in the dining room. Both the underlayment and subfloor surfaces are flat, with no dips. If i were to install the ceramic tiles and the hardwood flooring the two floors would be flush to eachother. Sounds good so far right? The problem is that the entire floor is sloped to one side about 3/16" per foot. The kitchen wall is 14 feet long. The dining room wall is 24 feet long. I would like to make the kitchen floor level because of the base cabinets and countertop. Is there any way that i could level out the hard wood flooring so that it stays flush with the tiles? I want to stay away from using a saddle because i have alreasy chosen a ceramic border piece. Thank you for your time. Happy holidays.

Luis,
If your measurements are accurate, you have serious issues. My math shows the floor is out of level over 7 inches in the 38 feet. That can't be the case. Well, it can be......but if so, you better call in a structural engineer to see if your house is going to tip over one day.

We purchased a house with hardwood floors and the first time we walked on it without shoes we notices the floor was kind of rough. It feels rough on the hands also and you can feel the gaps between boards. Was this floor just not finished or sealed?

Tim,
It could be that or maybe their is water vapor hitting the underside....... Read ALL of my Hardwood Flooring columns.

Tim,

I'm dealing with the uneven wooden subfloor challenge with dips of almost a half an inch in an 8-foot span. The difference is I'm planning to install engineered hardwood with a floating installation. Would you still use shingles to fill the dips? Would they:
- be nailed or somehow fastened?
- be installed upright or upside down?
- be above or below the underlayment?

Any other suggestions?

Thanks,

Geoff
Osgoode, ON

Geoff,
You can nail them - especially in your case with the floating floor. With traditional hardwood, the flooring nails pin the shingles. You can install them however you want - up or down. I would put them under the underlayment in your case.

Okay honestly- I can NOT tell you how excited I am to have ran across your shingle advice. We have been batteling with what to do in our kitchen for months now. We didnt want to spend the money to have someone come in and take the floor down to bare nothings.. and we didnt want to do it ourselves.. we've already done that to a few rooms in our house this far.. and we are tired. I just wanted to say thank you so much! Genious I tell you!

Have existing hardwood floors that is not level in dining area, saggs in the center, is it possible to raise the joist, without damaging the hardwood.This is the only area that the problem exist. Thanks for any help or information you can give.

Herbert,

It is very doubtful you can lift that joist to make a difference. You may do more harm than good. Be careful.

Tim,

I am dealing with a bit of predicament with recently installed 3/4 inch Maple hardwood. My contractor stripped the floor to the bare joists, added a subfloor and said he would level things to take out a fairly pronounced hump in the middle between my living room and dining room. Now that the hardwood is installed there are numerous bouncy areas and lots of crackle and popping as we walk over the floor. Obviously this isn't the way newly installed hardwood should look or feel correct? So my dillemma is this...if I ask the contractor to fix the problem he is likely to suggest face nailing...which will then most likely result in a pronounced hump in the floor and create a less than perfect feel to the floor after we wood fill the 'holes'. I have heard of drilling and injecting an epoxy solution under floor to fill voids...worth the attempt? or do we start to try to pull up the floor and gently as possible, level correctly and lay down floor again. Help!

thanks
Dave

Dave,
Take the floor up and please tell the contractor to do it right. Squeaks are totally unacceptable since the effort was made to start with bare joists.

Tim,
I am installing new 1/2" cypress hardwood flooring over older existing pine hardwood
I plan to run the new floor perpendicular
to the old to help with any minor uneveness.Would you recomend an underlayment that would cusion and soundproof the floor.And would this allso help with some minor imperfections.I have seen some foam underlayments but have no previous experience with them.
thank you in advance
Tony

Tony,
No. Read ALL of my columns that deal with Hardwood Floors if you wish to discover how I would install it.

There is one section of my living room, where I am trying to install hardwood, that appears to have a 'peak' where the sheets of plywood meet about a joist. When I put a straight-edge down over the joist, the end of the staight-edge near the wall (about 3 ft away from the joist) is approximately 1.25 inches off the floor. How do I fix that? I am guessing I may have to get the joist planed down.

I am trying to flatten an existing floor for ceramic tileing. It has a 2" drop in a corner that measures 3' by 3'out from both walls. What would be the best way to bring this drop up to the same plain as the rest of the floor, but still have a good solid subfloor for installing backer board and tile.

Douglas,
Sleepers, a pourable self-leveling compound, etc.

Does it matter whether you use old shingles or new shingles for leveling the subfloor?

David,
I would use new shingles.

Would this same leveling technique work with porcelin tile?

Wendy,
Possibly and only if the shingles were placed under cement board. But in all honesty, it is better to place the cement board in thinset so that all gaps under the board are filled. There will be slight air gaps with shingles. Hardwood can deal with tension. Tile cannot!

I have laid new shingles for leveling over my felt paper. I am planning to put hardwood over the shingles and felt paper. The asphalt smell is fairly strong in the house. Will this go away with a little time?

David,
Absolutely Yes. We have no asphalt odor in our home.

is tar paper still used today to protect the plywood on wood floors before you glue vinyl flooring down

Frances,
I don't believe that is an approved method. You need to follow the sheet-vinyl instructions.

I am using 2.25" wide hardwood boards (Bruce). Will I have a problem when the dropoff of my leveling shingle occurs across the width (2.25" side) of my hardwood plank? Thanks.

David,
You may. Feather the drop off with decreasing layers of felt paper.

I am planning to install a new 3/4 oak strip over my existing hardwood floor. The issue I have is that my existing floor has no subfloor, its just 3/4 tongue and grove perpendicular to the floor joyces. It has many highs and lows, up to 1/4. I was told that I can put 3/8 ply down and it would even it out for the new floor or I can just install on a 45. What would be the best approach?

Tom,
It would be best to install this new hardwood directly on top of the existing, but run the new at right angles to the old flooring. Be sure to use the shingles or some leveling compound in the low spots. Do not use plywood.

I'm installing laminate flooring material and have depressions up to 1/2" deep. Have you ever used the shingle method to take up space and then apply self leveling compound over the shingles to fair out the edges? Otherwise how do you get rid of the edges which would show under the underlayment and then affect the overall laminate flooring?

Thank you very much

Keenan

Are you ignoring my questions on purpose i have come to this site everyday since the 14th (my original post) seeing if you have responded but I keep seeing responses to the questions that came after mine. you could at least inform me of your disinterest in responding so I dont continue to provide your site with hits.

Hi I have purchased a bungalow with some slab movement which is historical.
The parquet flooring down at the moment has moved with it and is still fixed firmly in position. But the worst case along one wall is a gap of 15mm in the centre over 4 meters span. If I want to replace the parquet flooring with a bamboo or maple. I will need to remove the skirting and existing floor. but there is a tar like substance which was used for adhesive. Will it need to be removed before a self leveling compound is laid? Will it also need to be sealed first? What is the best products to use.

Nick

Keenan,
I have. The leveling compound feathers out nicely.

My subfloor is "flat" but where the plywood sheets butt up against each other, one might be as much as an 1/8th of and inch higher than the other. Can I just lay the 3/4inch oak hardwood over the joint perpendicularly and not worry about it, or should I use your shingle idea to soften the edge.

Thanks
Jerry
Denver Colorado

Nick,
You need to follow the instructions provided by the manufacturers of ALL the products you intend to use. Doing this takes out all guesswork.

Jerry,
Just use floor-leveling compound to feather out that offset.

I am currently installing hardwood flooring on the first level of our house. We live in WI and house has engineered I beams as floor joists with 3/4" tongue & groove OSP.
The first question is I have a step down to another room with 3/4" oak transfer strip along the floor. Can I install the hardwood floor tight to this transfer strip or should I leave room for expansion? I would rather go tight to it to eliminate any trim strip over the top of both items to hide the expansion gap.
Second question is what should I place under the hardwood. Should I use rosin paper or tar paper? The room I am concerned with is the kitchen where I had to remove vinyle floor with 1/4" subfloor. The subfloor has many staples and I did my best to either remove or nail the staples flush to the OSP board.

Thanks in advance, Matt

Tim,

I'm installing floating laminate and need to fill in few low spots. I've been told that 15 mil tarpaper will give more flexibility than shingles. If I use tar paper, and then roll out the foam underlayment over the tar paper, do I risk any stickiness from the tar paper seeping through the foam and not allowing the floor to "float" as it should? Thanks.

Michael
Northwest Indiana

Matt,
I have answered your questions in my other past columns about Hardwood Floors. It really would be worth your while to read all of my work on this topic.

Michael,
In your case, why not fill the low areas with a leveling compound? That solves both issues.

We have a contractor that has installed the wood floor. Subfloor is not level. Part of the floor was raised to make it all one level.

Problem floor dips and raises. Visually you can tell in areas and of course feel with your feet.You can also tell by sliding and french doors that it is not level.

How unlevel can it be without further damage down the road. It almost feels like it cold bow out. How much is acceptable? Does it need to be redone?

What shold I tell my contractor? What can be done at this point? I thought that of course our home is not level and a contractor is suppose to allow for that which is what he said when commenting about our home in other areas

Husband feels it is because it is a 35 year old house. We had it lifted because our addition was not level b 4 to 6 inches. We had them come back and lift this area where we have a problem Which for whatever reason was taken care of the first time. He feels what they came back and did more or less made everything out of wack.

Sorry to gon just want to make sure I am giving you all the facts. I feel like the girl that takes her car and knows nothing about cars except this is our home.

Kimberly,
You tell the contractor it is unacceptable and do not pay him until the floor is installed correctly.

I discovered a similiar problem in my 1954 home, when trying to instal new hard wood. Is ok to use the shingles to go up to an 1" slump that stretches across 3 support joices, or is it better to go underneath and try to jack it up? There are currenlty no cracks are anything else to suggest a sinking foundation, but what do we need to consider in trying to raise the floor?

Lisa,
I would jack up the floor if it has bowed. Another choice is to pour a self-leveling floor compound to fill the depression.

Let me start by saying that I wish I found this article and QA thread earlier, but too late for that so...

We're putting down 5/16" hardwood but are trying to get the floor in my 80 year old home level first.

I'm working with a carpenter friend who insisted that the way to do it is to use significant amounts of glue (PL440) on the OSB that is going over subfloor to make up for uneven areas. We then screwed it all down with lots of screws.

We're now using a leveling compound to get a smooth surface. He suggested Ardex, but I couldn't find it locally, so we settled on Henry 555 Level Pro.

So here's my question: when it is time to start laying down the 5/16" floor, will I be able to staple through the Level Pro? The Ardex? Also, do we really need to smooth out the whole floor, or just uneven areas at the seams?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Can you sand down some of the high spots at the joists with a belt sander?

I have a 2" drop in a 6' porch what is the best way to fix this issue?

Is it OK to use tar paper as a sound barrier when installing pre-finished laminte floor? I will be going over a ply-wood floor with a pre-existing vinyl floor. I am trying to go as inexpensive as possible.

I am currently renovating an old home built roughly 1880s. Over the last 100 years different rooms have been renovated at different times which have lead to abrupt changes in floor heights. It is as drastic as a 2 inch lip between the kitchen and the dinning room. Are the methods described above relevant to this problem, or is there another method I can use? Thank you!

spence

I have an existing old 1901 wood floor that drops to 2 inches at one point. Will the shingles work there also or should I use plywood? I plan to put roofing paper and a plywood subfloor over the existing floor before putting down tongue & groove pine boards. Also, do you recommend glueing or nailing the T&G?

Tim,

I want to install a floating floor. When I pulled up the old carpet I found a strange substance oo the floor which looks like sawdust glued together and spread out. I have since been told it is called magnasite. Anyway this magnasite stuff it is not level at all, there a various high and low spots. Whoever levelled it (back in 1963) must have had a few too many beers beforehand. I was hoping to sand the high spots down with a floor sander. How can I do this? I will need to remove about 10mm of material at the high spots to get it near level.Will a drum sander do this or will it simply follow the contours of the existing floor? Or should I use an orbital sander with a screen? The 80 grit screen does not look abrasive enough to me to do the job. what do you think? thanks for your website.

Hi,

I am trying to level the floor in a kitchen and livingroom of an old cottage. The owner wants to install a lanolium floor. There are spots that are at least 1 inch deeper than others. I understand that I will be using roofing tiles to shim, but do I lay down a 3/4" plywood befor the Lanolium , or can I use 1/2 inch plywood ? And do I still have to lay down roofing black paper for moisture ?
Thanking you in advance.
A Fay

I'm dealing with a floor dip.
the dip is in the center of the dinning room & kitchen ,the sub floor seems to have a dip of 1/2 in a 8-foot span .my basement cieling is opened ,it seems that the mais suppot beem 16' long is sagging
i jacked up the beem slightly ,but my dip is still there
i'm going to install hardwoor floors,and than sand & finish them .
1 was thinking to lift up the subfloot plywood aroung that area ,then screw in 2x3's beside the joists to act as a new joist ,then scew the ply wood from top into new acting joist .
1dont kow any other way to correct this ,help

I recently had to remove some old water stained and damaged 3/8" K3 board from my floor in an area where I want to install 11/16" oak hardwood flooring. THe subfloor is 1 x 6 planks run on a diagnol to the solid wood joists. There are gaps between the planks up to 1/4" or so. Can I can just install the oak flooring right over top of the planks or do I need to cover it with plywood. The area is in the homes second level.

thank You

Hi,

Are asphalt shingles safe to use indoors?


Thanks
Alan

I have a big problem I just had my hardwood floors sanded and sealed and they are very rough on your feet and to the touch. What can I do?

1. Can too much of leveling compound on the subfloor be a cause of any problem? I mean from the nails (getting thru) and heaviness point of views. By the way, what brand of leveling compound would you recommend?

2. Will shingles make noise over time?

3. Can I use one to three layers of stapled tart paper to even up the floor?

4. What are the pluses and minuses of nailing and/or glueing down the eng. hardwood floors? I am asking this because I put so musch of leveling and now I think I better go with glue (because of nails and the thickness of the leveling).

Thank you for you attention and advice.

I had new hardwood flooring installed and where the hallway abuts the liv. rm. flooring (which was installed when the house was built) there is a difference in height and in color and type of hardwood. Is there a simple solution??

I am looking at purchasiing a 1951 home that has two areas which have 2-1/2 inches of fall in 10 feet. Will a leveling compound be applicable to "float" the floor? It is a concrete slab with tile currently installed, with only cracks in three tiles. Should I float the floor enough to attain the required 3/16 inches in 10 feet? I want to install Laminate engineered wood.

What is a ballpark cost per cubic foot of floor leveling compound. I estimated approximately 25 cubic feet of compound for the 950 sq.ft home, is that ridiculous? It has movement, but I think it can be fixed!! Please help quick, I am about to open escrow!

John

Hi Tim,

My house was built in 1887 and needless to say the floor is pretty uneven. The current subfloor is 3/4" tongue and grove (probably Pine?). I want to install new 3/4" oak flooring and my question is this. Should I cover the existing subfloor with plywood after leveling as you've said with the shingles? or should I just use the shingles? I don't mind spending the time and money if it will make the flooring job easier.

Thanks,

Bill
Toronto, ON

I am installing a new prefinished oak floor over the original fir floors, my house was built in 1909. There is a little bit of gapping in the old floors and some patches that had been done with particle board. I was wondering if I still lay the new floor perpendicular to the joists? I did look at removing the old floors, but was advised to leave them, as there are thousands of nails that were used to stop squeaks. Also can I use the same underlayment used with most laminate flooring? Thank you in advance for your help!

Casey
Butte, MT

Tim,

How do you go about leveling an existing hardwood floor to prep for a new one. I have just moved into a house built in the 20's and the existing hardwood floor is not even close to level, however, there is no subfloor underneath. I was hoping to use the orginal hardwood as my new subfloor. Is this possible?

Hi Tim.

I'll be floating an engineered wood floor in my basment (5/8ths thick). My basement is dry, has A/C vents and a return and passed a moisture test done by taping down a bunch of plastic squares for about one week. I will be laying 6 mil poly beneath a sound deadening material. My first question is, is it worth also using a cement sealer as well? In my case, most of the cement floor is covered with glue residue from an old carpet so here I don't think this would work (I don't want the hassle of cleaning the cement) but in about 25% of the basement the cement floor is clear of any contaminants so perhaps sealing these areas? If so, any suggestions on sealer to use and does it require a primer too?

My second question you may have answered regarding using asphalt shingles to fill a few depressions. I've been hesitant to use a self leveling compound, so I appreciate your fix. I would think place these above the 6 mil poly?

By the way, I've also heard using dry sand to flatten out the depressions, though I think you would feel/hear underneath.

Thanks!

Dear Tim
It looks like I have the same problem as Luis had. My House has joists meeteng on metal I-beam in the middle of the floor along entire lenght of house. Joists are practically crossing while leaning against the metal beam in the center of house's struture, causin high bump along center line of living room and kitchen. Slopy job of builder left first owner with first floor (and second too but smaller)sloping toward both longest walls: one 9/16" and on other side almost one inch. It looks like they went out of any rules they should. You mentioned about using roof shingles to level floors. Would be possible in your opinion to use asphalt shingles to level subfloor with 1/4" on top of it and entier floor as to make it smooth at the same time leveled with existing kichen tile floor? Could you give closer look at how this task should be done? Up to how tihick gap/level asphalt shingles can be used?

Than you for your patience and help in advance.

Chris

We bought a 12-year old house, which has uneven floors that at some point has 1.5 inch drops 6 ft apart. Also most of the floor (let's say 90%) is at about -1 inch relative to the highest spot - do you suggest we use asphalt shingle for the 90% of the space to match the highest point of the floor? Or are there any better way to make the floor at the highest point lower?

Thanks for your comment in advance.

Tim,

Which brand or kind of wood floor would you recommend to hide the imperfections or uneveness of the subfloor? Thanks.

Hi Tim,

I'm just about to install new hardwood floor (Canadian Oak) and have a dip of 3/8" on 4'-0" length. I do not want to use shingles as I have a heating outlet in the area effected. The heat coming out of the register could warm up the asphalt shingle and cause unplesant smell.

My quastion is:

What kind of leveling compound I can use (specific name manufacturer)? I have been to Home Depot and Rona and the do not have any compound (except concrete base)which is not recommended to use. Also, where can I get this floor leveling compound. No one sims to know or have any suggestions. Could I use wall tile glue material?

Thanks.

Miro