I just read your separate articles, one regarding Pella windows and the other about condensation. We bought a new home about 5 years ago, which had wood frame Pella windows and patio doors all around the main floor. We have a geothermal system and so heat is by forced air. We have had the problem every since we moved in with severe condensation every winter. Afraid of the water damage I was noticing on all the window frames I gave them all three coats of an indoor/outdoor polyurathane. I tried asking the Pella company directly what could be done to prevent water damage, warping and mold/mildew. Their only response was the humidity in our home was too high. Well, when we receiv static shock from simply walking across the floor I don't think we have it too high. My husband wants to put that plastic coating around the inside of every window. I grew up with solid storm windows on my parent's house and they never had condensation on the inside panes (maybe on the storm though). Therefore, I was thinking that would be a good solution. What is your suggestion? We are heading into what should be quite a winter here in the midwest right now so this is something that would have to happen next year. Thank you for your consideration in this matter and I wait for your response.

Katherine,
Pella is telling you the truth. Your indoor humidity is too high and/or the exterior temperature is so cold it is dropping the temperature of the inner pane of glass *below* the dew point of the air inside the house. This is easy to test. TURN OFF all sources of interior humidity. For a complete list, go read my past articles on indoor humidity and condensation.

Would a more substantial HVAC system prevent interior condensation of windows?

Anthony,

No. Read ALL of my past columns on Condensation and Indoor Humidity.

I would like to say the Pella wood windows are worse than others as far as condensation. I do understand the physics behind the dew point and condensation on the inside of the windows and it is directly related to interior humidity and glass temp. Here is where the issue is: Pella wood windows have cheap aluminum glass spacers that are close to the inside edge of the frame. We have bad condensation issues on all of our windows mostly because we do not have forced air heating and have a generous 50% humidity inside most of the winter. BUT, we have 2 full light fiberglass doors and another type of window that do not have any condensation issues in the same environment. I am going to blame the design of the Pella window for having a bad thermal bridge and causing the glass edge to be too cold for causing the condensation since I have other products that do not have the same problem in the same enviroment

We replaced our old pella windows that were only replaced due to rotting exterior framing. We had no condensation on the windows at all.

We replaced with the Pella pro line series and have just three years are experiencing some inside damage on the bottom frame for condensation.

Our Humidity levels are normal. Do you think Pella will honestly help me solve this issue if they have made this series of Windows incorrectly.

I cannot afford to replace again.

Your help is needed.

Yours
Truly,

Bob Petersen

Bob,
How have you verified that your humidity is *normal*? Are you positive this is not an exterior water issue?

I have the same problem with the pella proline series windows. I am getting condensation on the inside and its damaging the wood on the window. I was wondering what the humidity in your house is supposed to be. I have a hygrometer and it says the humidity is 55 and thats the normal zone on it. So is it supposed to be lower?

Tony,
That reading is off the charts! It is way too high. Go read ALL of my past columns on Condensation and the ones about Indoor Humidity. Read the columns I have about Humidifiers as well as they have the data you are looking for.

We have had bad problems with pella proline windows. We have replaced every window in our home with pella casements except one that pella could not fit(it has an Anderson). EVERY ONE OF THE PELLA'S IS ROTTEN AND MOLDED. Yes we probably do have a little higher humidity than we should but the Anderson is fine and it's in our KITCHEN!!! I wouldn't recommend Pella windows to anyone, when we called them they lectured me about condensation and sent me pamphlets to read. So I guess we are just out THOUSANDS of dollars.

All good window manufactures have this problem. I have worked for several window manufactures in the service department and have installed windows for years. All of the windows that I have installed have been in Florida, but when its cold then there is condensation. Its like what ask the builder said ... it is moisture in the house .... if you crack the window open ... it will go away ....

For home owners that did not want to crack there windows open I gave them a box of damp rid to put next to the windows and that solved the problem ... no water damage !!!

just wanted to add my 2 cents in ... thanks

I also have had problems with all of my Pella Windows. We replaced them all in the old part of our house and they all have the same problem with condensation. I have run a dehumidifier continuously and have seen no improvement. The wood on the windows is rotting despite the fact that the windows were painted with many coats of polyurethane. We have hot water heat so our humidity is higher than people that have forced air, but honestly the problem is ridiculous. Pella has the same answer--our humidity is too high--but there is absolutely no way for us to lower our humidity with our existing heating system. I would never recommend Pella windows to anyone. They should be required to put on their windows: Not for houses whose humidity exceeds 30%.

This problem with condensation and mold on Pella Windows & Doors has nothing to do with the relative humidity of your house or what type of heating system you have. This has to do with a poor engineering design on Pella's behalf. I'm not a Pella hater. I am a frustrated consumer that has had nothing but problems with my Pella Sliding Doors. Note, I said their doors. I have absolutely no issues with Pella Windows. When you call Pella Customer Service, they have a text book of answers they will give based on you issue. I spent nearly $3500 on two sliding doors (one is Designer Series, one Proline) that have formed so much condenstion that the stain and varnish have peeled off and have black mold present on the oak threshold. I would not recommend Pella Doors. Sorry, but their customer service isn't exactly upstanding and their product in my opinion is substandard for the price.

would a dehumidifier help? Thanks

David,
Yes, but...... Go find my past columns on Indoor Humidity and read those. You will discover the issue is fairly complex.

We put Pella Proline windows in our new house, built in 2004. I hate these windows! There is mildew on every single one. It is below zero here in WI and now we also have thick frost accumulating on the bottom. I also want to mention that I can barely close them - the ones with a single lock I can get, but the double locks, forget it. That is now my husband's job. We also have a sliding door on our porch and its even worse than the windows. The frost is so thick and we also have black mold all over the bottom. I scraped it off with a razor about a month ago, but it is grown into the wood. Its disgusting.
Anyway, I've heard Pella won't do anything, and after reading all these comments I'm glad to know its not just us - these windows are not well made!
I could kick myself - I worked at Andersen and could have even gotten a discount if I had used my profit sharing to buy the windows, but my husband insisted on Pellas.
Our next house will have Andersen windows, no ifs, ands or buts.

temperature drops wen it is very cold wether i get a condensation 1 to 2 inches on the bottom of the window, i installed new window i like to correct this problem, thank you!

Otto,

You need to read ALL of the columns in my Condensation category.

I was searching for help on pella proline windows and I found this site. It seems we all have the same problem. I had FROST inside my house on the window the last few days. I also have black mold growing in between the window panes. I can't even get to it to kill it. We are not idiots, we've been around windows for a long time. Pella needs to do a recall and a redesign. Recently, Anderson windows was sued in a class action and all the homes in a subdivision with these windows got brand new windows (for a $40 fee). Their problem was gas leakage between the panes. Perhaps we need to do the same to Pella.

I also have the same pella windows- the humidity in the house is at 50 as well. I have scissor trusses so my inside is vaulted. The only place this happens in on the north side of the building. No ice damns either. Any ideas?

Rob,
Your humidity is WAY too high. Fifty percent relative humidity is off the charts. The highest I would ever consider in my home is 40%.

Hi. My husband and I own a 6 unit apartment. All the windows in every unit are BAD. There is so much condensation, that you can't even see out. Puddles of water accumulate and turn to ice on the inside. The main exterior glass door looks like someone painted it white on the inside. It's totally covered in FROST !!
I know the problem is humidity, but when it affects all the units, what might the problem be? We were wondering if it has something to do with lack of insulation in the walls.? It's a brick-block building.
Thank you for your time in replying.

Adriannna,
The condensation has nothing to do with insulation in the walls. Please go read right now *every* column in the Condensation category of my website. You will discover in a few minutes how to stop the water.

We are having a similar problem with pella prolines during a really cold spell here (20 below with 35 below wind chill) I was told it is because we don't have a cold air exchanger. The guy I talked too recommended pulling fresh air from outside into the cold air return of the furnace. Newer homes have expensive cold air returns, but if your house is older (like mine) then you need to provide a fresh outside air source for your house. It's healthier for you too. I also found this article:

http://alsnetbiz.com/homeimprovement/faq12.html

This confirms that some of you may be having this problem also. That dosen't mean the pella don't have issues though. Anyway, I am going to run a six inch duct from my cold air return to the outside to test this. The way I am going to do it is cut a piece of plywood the size of a basement window, insulate the inside of it with 1.5 inch pink foam, cut a hole for a screened vent and secure the plywood on the inside of the (opened) window. The I'll run ducting from the window to the cold air return of the furnace. This is pretty cheap, maybe $30-50 material. If it helps then I will put a permenant solution in place.

Also, the humidity on the inside of the house should be relative to the outside humidity.

I should also add that even though my house is old (1915) I wrapped and resided it, insulated all the exterior walls, and replaced all the windows (making it much more air-tight). I also had a new furnace installed but no air exchanger. I have both pella proline and a Wenco vinyl windows, both which have the problem. A quick test of whether fresh air is the problem is to crack a window in each room of your house when the moisture starts to accumulate, give it a couple hours and see if the problem goes away.

Steve,
You can read what I have to say about that venting here:

http://www.askthebuilder.com/446_Fresh-Air_Intake_Vents.shtml

I found this link through google looking for solutions to condensation on my windows before I actually call the manufacturer. They do carry a lifetime warranty, but if its something simple that would be better.
I recently installed 5 sliders from centenial, all 5 are getting condensation on them on the bottoms. I am reading that while this may be normal, no other windows in my house do it. I have 5 year old ducana windows in the rest of the upstairs and some no names inthe basement that do not get any condensation on them at all. I have tried leaving ceiling fans on to stop it and its not working. The sales rep told me that while this may happen with ducana windows and others, it wont happen with thiers.
Is it worth me calling the company? thermostat is reading 53% humidity.

thanks for your time

Jeremy,
Read ALL of my Condensation category columns. The answer is there. My friend, it is all about dew point...... and temperature of the inner-glass panel.

We too have Pella wood windows and have the same severe condensation issue.

-The house was built in 2004.
-Pella wood frame windows.
-Indoor humidty this morning was 30-31 Percent.
-geothermal furnace with forced air.

The windows with any covering (blinds) were frozen. We still have some temporary blinds but are now concerned about putting in permanent ones with this still being an issue. Those without were very wet and occassionaly had a bit of ice in the cornets. This is includes all windows and the back door.

Obviously the window paint is peeling, the wood is wet and even getting some mold now and then. They will need painted, if we are lucky and replaced if not.

It has been suggested we get a HRV (air exchanger) installed and that should help eliminate or subdue any humidity and stale air issues.

Hopefully that works, but our attached garage will still have the issue.

Anyone have any other suggestions or ideas?

Thanks in advance.

Scott

Scott and ALL others,
Please read ALL of my condensation columns. This is a simple physics issue. You need to control the dew point. Now, is the brand of the window such that it is harder for the interior pane of glass to stay above the dew point? You bet that can be an issue! It is all about what is the temperature of the inner pane of glass. In a side-by-side comparison test, I can guarantee you that different windows would produce different temps!

I find that one set of my windows in my bedroom has been developing frost on the glass. Another window in the same room is crystal clear. Why is that and what is the cure ?

2. I have the kitchen below the same set of windows and similar situation.

3. I also have the garage below the kitchen could that have a bearing on this.

Hi, I have just looked over most of your comments and problems. I am a window installer and I am running into the same problems with my windows. which are vinly D.H. I am going to get a hygrometer my self. I would like to know information on this process, but I'm sorry a lot of people are having this problem. Thank You Ron Thomas Philadelphia, Pa

I have Pella Pro-line windows. They are the worst. I also have the condensation problem. We have huge puddles of water. I get the same story about humidity levels being to high. Don't buy Pella, the windows suck!

Hi there Tim. Before you say it, yes, I have read all of your info on window condensation and humidity. Here's my issue:

What if I've done everything you suggest to control indoor humidity and STILL have condensation problems?

1. I have an eco-home. It's 8 months old and it is EXTREMELY tight, I know that. We have a Heat Recovery Ventilation system (air to air heat exchanger) that we have on continuous LOW during the winter.

2. We have bath exhaust fan timers that run for 30 minutes after each shower/bath.

3. We use our kitchen exhaust hood EVERY time we cook (even when only using the oven and no boiling water on stove).

4. We have a dehumidifier that we use in our basement when it is occupied - since there is no other mechanical ventilation on that level as there is on the other levels of our home.

It appears that the problem is with the insulating blinds that we are using - severe condensation when we keep the blinds down - yes, no air movement near the innermost pane of glass. Windows are Jeld-Wen. Most are double pane, low e with argon. Some are double pane (no low e) with additional storm units to create triple pane. It appears that the WORST condensation and mold issues have developed on the inopperable, fixed pane windows when we keep the insulating blinds down.

We also have propane appliances that add additional moisture to the air, but given all that we already do to control the humidity, is there anything else that can be done - short of running the bath fans and kitchen range hood 24/7? Thanks!

I have a relative humidity problem in my house. I bought a hygrometer. We are averaging between 65-72%. We noticed condensation on windows. It started to mold. We had a ventilation person come to our house. He said our attic is not ventilating aggressively enough. So, he told us to double our amount of soffit vents which we just completed. He will be out in a couple days to vent our bathroom exhausts and kitchen exhausts out through roof. They were ventilating into attic. He also wants us to get a more aggressive ridge vent. Someone is coming to give us an estimate on that. Right now our ridge vent has only a two inch gap. The person coming out wants it about 4 more inches to ventilate more aggressively. Our ventilation person is going to close off one of our intakes to our central heat/air system in our house. It is right by the bathroom. He will make the intake in living room larger. He said our area inside our intakes is not sealed properly,so he is going to seal that better too. He thinks air from the attic is getting sucked into our system, since our attic is not ventilating properly it is adding to our humidity in our house. Okay... here is my question. If this does not take care of my humidity problem, who do I go to next? What do I investigate next? We live in humid northwest florida. During the winter, our windows get soaked with condensation. Our house was built in 79. Our windows are old. They are the brown metal ones. I'm sure they are not efficient. I was thinking of replacing them, but then I saw all of the comments about problems with people that started getting condensation after getting new windows. Not sure what to do. Mold is starting to grow, I had a seizure, which I've seen links to mold and humidity. We need to nip this problem in the bud. Please direct me where to go if all of the ventilation things we are doing don't help.
Thanks,
Liz

I just put in the pella therma Star Vinyl windows through out my home, And everone of mine have bad condensation. I thought it was because it was there low line of windows, But reading all these comments, This is the last time I will ever install them again. And I thought Pella sold a good product.

Kris,
You are going to hate me..... You haven't done everything...... The dew point of the interior air is still too high..... You need to read my past columns about Indoor Humidity and find what is putting the humidity into the air.

Liz,
You simply need to lower the humidity to stop the condensation. Or you need to raise the temperature of the glass above the dew point of the air.

Hey Tim, I don't hate you, but I have to ask how you can say I haven't done everything when you don't know all that we've done? I HAVE read all of your past columns about indoor humidity and condensation - I've spent DAYS here reading. I understand that I have excess interior humidity. I know the common sources, but I don't know how to eliminate the problem efficiently. (ie - I don't want to just open a window in the middle of winter, or keep my thermostat set lower). This home has received a preliminary Energy Star 5 Star Rating (awaiting final testing and expect to receive a final 5+ star rating), so we're dealing with a level of efficiency and "tightness" that is very rare. I can tell you that the following items are NOT the problem:

1. Basement - ICF foundation insulated at exterior and interior. Basement slab insulated to R-10 below the slab with a high quality vapor barrier below and insulated at the perimeter. Vapor barrier and damp proofing on the exterior of the ICF is Delta-Roll. Sump pump keeps excess moisture from accumulating in basement.

2. The house is EXTREMELY tight (this is the problem) - spray foam insulation for entire vertical above grade building envelope. All framing members caulked, sill plates have gaskets and caulk. Doors and windows have spray foam insulation sealing. Wall R-values are approx. 25-30 with superior air infiltration resistence.

3. All ductwork is installed in conditioned envelope. Efficient ductwork design, sealed with mastic. Heat source is primarily passive solar with two high efficiency air heat pumps for back up. Water heater is solar. An HRV provides make up fresh air - runs on continuous low (we've since turned it up to medium).

4. Attic - R-50 18" of blown cellulose. Raised heel trusses allow for insulation to extend out over exterior wall - sealed with caulk. Attic ventilation consists of continuous soffit ventilation on both the high and low sides of a shed style roof. House is 22' x 65' long with continuous soffit vents on both of the long sides (north and south). Attic access hatch sealed well with heavy duty sealing strip and insulated above hatch.

5. Windows - high efficiency, u-values at .35 or lower, low e glazing on all windows that are not solar gain windows. SHGC is .35 or below for low-e windows. Solar heat gain windows on south side have a U-value of .35 and a SHGC of around .5

6. Appliances - cooking stove, direct vent stove, and clothes dryer are propane (yes I know this adds humidity).

7. No humidifier on HVAC system. Stand alone, portable dehumidifier used in areas when needed. (This dehumidifier can't handle the large open living spaces where most of the condensation problems are located).

8. High efficiency exhaust fans at kitchen stove and baths - set to timers to run for 20-30 minutes after showers. These vent directly to the exterior.

9. Winter thermostat setting is 69 degrees for daytime and 66 degrees at night. Passive solar keeps house between 69 and 75 degrees on sunny days. On gray days, heat pumps maintain 69 degrees.

10. Automated insulating blinds - approx. R-4 - set to a timer to open with sunrise and close with sunset. All windows that have insulating blinds condensate with cool/cold outdoor temps. All windows with NO window coverings do not condensate. Leaving the blinds slighting open at the bottom helps a little, but there are still condensation problems - wet windows developing mildew/mold. (There seems to be no correlation between window orientation and degree of condensation - windows on all sides of the house have equal problems. The only indicator is those that are exposed / uncovered do not condensate, and those that are covered do.

I do not have a hot tub/sauna, lots of plants, a greenhouse, indoor pool, or an acquarium. We don't even have fish in a bowl. I've got 3 adults, 2 kids, and 2 large dogs in 2300 sf (and no, I'm not getting rid of any of them!)

So, my husband wonders if running our ceiling fans to increase air circulation might help? Short of installing a whole house dehumidification system, or keeping my (VERY EXPENSIVE) insulating blinds open, I am at a loss as to what to attempt next.

NOW you can say I haven't done everything, but if you do, please tell me what it is because I honestly HAVE read all of your previous articles and I'm apparently missing something. I understand relative humidity, dewpoint, etc. And I understand that the problem is the interior pane of glass temp and interior humidity level. I know how to increase the temp of the glass (keep the blinds open) - but I don't want to do that if I don't have to. What I DON'T know, is anything else I can do to lower the indoor humidity given all of the above info. Thanks again!

Donny,
Pella does make a good product....... Part, or all of the problem is being caused by you. The indoor humidity is too high. Read my column above once more and read ALL of my Condensation columns.

Kris,
Uncle! We both know you need to lower the humidity. What did the hygrometer readings tell you? I assume you read that column about using one to take readings to see what the dew point really is indoors. Are you positive there is a vapor barrier under the slab?

I have all 2 year old designer Pella windows. My house is very tight and has a heat recover ventilator. My humidity is within normal range. I get no frost on the window glass but tons of it on the bottom seal of the window! In all the corners and in the plastic slides that the window slides up and down in. It will blow out a match on a windy day! I have the exterior of the house tyvek's and the windows taped with pella window tape. The walls are spray foam for an inch and then batts. for the remaining 6 inches.
The windows are level and square with window style spray foam installed all the way to the exterior . I also am in wisconsin and in cold snaps the frost on the frames is terrrible , creating mold on the seals.
The pella's are terrible to open and to close. The springs have been replaced . There are all new locks to help in closing and they have waxed the slides with no effect! The pella people have been great , but its just a bad design.
One other thing is that when the wind blows over 10 or 15 miles an hour the windows creak terribly.
Any Ideas would be appreciated .Anyone with the same problems in the Midwest can email me.

Sorry I guess my email didnt show up! 67bronco@tm.net
Oh yeah the pella rep thought it might be the fact that i have a heat recovery ventilator. To high tech I guess .
Thanks

Hi Mr. Carter,

What about condensation on the outside of the windows? We had vinyl replacement windows installed in December and had very little condensation during the winter months. However the St. Louis humidity is kicking in and when we ran our air conditioner almost all of the windows had condensation on the outside. Is there anything that can be done about this? Is this a problem with the window itself or the installation of the window?

We have Pella windows in our beautiful brand new home. We have shut off our humidifier in the winter and still have condensation, peeling paint and now mold growing at the bottom of every window in the house. We are so very disappointed with our Pella windows. Please do not tell us it's the high humidity in our home. We are at 26- 28% and we still have condensation. Our past home was 40 years old and we never had condensation problems. There must be a problem with the design of the windows. Pella will not help. We will NEVER buy Pella products again. We deeply disappointed with the windows. Mr. Carter, please look into the design concerns. Everyone can not be wrong sir.