Foam Insulation

Is icynene still regarded as the foam insulation of choice? From what I understand, it's of the open cell variety which allows for the escape of water vapor. I'm about to have this applied to my addition; and pour formula to retrofit the 100 year old walls. The addition was framed using 2x6 lumber which I assume should allow for more material in the stud bays... Also, is advisable to apply the icynene to the attic floor? Thanks in advance for all insight.

Adem,
I can't endorse any product for obvious reasons. But I can tell you that I am giving it *serious* consideration for my new home up in New Hampshire.

OK... but would you install open cell spray foam in the floor of an unfinished attic. The attic has a furnace living up there... Thanks!

Adem,
Possibly yes...... depends on the con of loosing access to buried cables....... and what about roof leaks? How long does it take for that foam to dry?

I build in upstate New York and have used both the open cell and closed cell foam insulations. The closed cell, in my opinion, is a much better product, with higher r-values per inch and inherent vapor barrier properties it possesses. Technically, a vapor barrier is required over Icynene foam, due to its ability to transmit moisture (open cell).

In comparison to Fiberglass insulation the closed cell foam outperforms by a factor of 2:1 in real heat loss. Here's why: Fiberglass insulation will absorb moisture in the wall cavity due to normal water vapor transmission unless the vapor barriers are caulked and sealed and NO penetrations exist. Typically, an R-19 or R-21 wall is reduced to an effective R-value of 10 or 11 once moisture has penetrated the wall cavity. Add the air infiltration resistance of foam insulation (air infiltration accounts for 35 to 40% of your heat loss) and the spray foams are a hands down winner over fiberglass products.

For cost reasons, I am insulating exterior walls, basement walls and all rim joist cavities with closed cell foams and insulating horizontal attic cavities with a 6 mil poly vapor barrier and R-49 blown in fiberglass. Cathedral or vaulted rafter framed areas get spray foamed as well.

The only additional consideration is an HRV, an air exchanger that maintains fresh air quality within the home.

Dean,

By spraying the rafters, aren't you concerned about the attic and shingles getting extremely hot during the summer months? Couldn't this possibly shorten the life of the shingles? How will the attic air be vented?

Adem-

In the cathedral/sprayed rafter areas, there are two methods that can be used.
One, is to spray foam directly to the back of the roof sheathing, with out the ventilation from the soffit to the ridge vent. This sprayed in place foam application is no different than using pre-insulated stress skin foam panels that are commonly used in timber frame construction (3 or 4" foam with an outer skin of osb and an inner skin of either osb or drywall). I have done this on projects and after 10 years, the shingles are fine. You can verify the suitability with the shingle manufacturer.
The other method is to install the normal proper vents in the bays and spray foam over them. I personally prefer the "hot roof" application of spraying the foam directly to the back of the plywood roof decking. The primary reason for the proper vents is to vent moisture laden air from the rafter bays (as would occur with fiberglass). Since the closed cell foam insulation totally precludes the moisture situation, the ventilation is not really a necessity.

Adem--

by the way, the attic space does not get hot.

I used insoylate (open cell) spray foam in my 3 year old tinmber frame home. In the past 3 years I have had water vapor leaks running down the side of my wall(it is not in the same spot); usually in a corner.
I am almost sure that the fault of this is poor appliation leaving several voids in the product, no vapor barrier (which was not reccomended by the contractor), and no proper venting.
I think the moisture seeps through the tongue & grove pine celings, freezes in the voids next to the blandex roof, and when it gets warm out, the moisture runs down the wall.
What do you think? I am very concerned about mold, rot, and the integrity of the home.
Please help!
Dan

Dan-

It's definitely a vapor barrier issue. The dew point (the point at which moisture condenses into water) is 1/3 of the way into the R-value of any wall or ceiling assembly. With open cell foams, they can wick moisture into the insulation. As it (the moisture vapor) migrates through the insulation and hits the dew point area it condenses into water. This can be ugly, as it is a constantly occurring cycle, year after year. Unfortunately, there isn't an easy fix your your situation now that all interior finishes are applied. I would call the insulation contractor back and press him on the issue. Hopefully you have a certificate of insurance from him that has completed operations coverage. Voids in the insulation would contribute to the problem, but the lack of an impervious vapor barrier (either sprayed on [a product like Supergreen Lam]or a 6 mil poly vapor barrier with joints taped with tyvek tape or equal)is definitely the main issue.

Dean,

So, you think I should apply a vapor barrier over the open cell spray foam, then drywall? Would you recommend a 10mil vapor retarder? I have some remaining after using it under the slab in my crawl-space.

So, you would put a vapor barrier/retarder over the open cell foam insulation? I've got some 10 mil left-over vapor retarder from my concrete slab that I might use behind the drywall. Is that a good idea?

Dan,
I would pretty much agree with you.

I have drywall going over my open cell spray insulation on Saturday. I'd like to know if it's recommended to place a vapor barrier over the spray foam before the drywall gets put on. Thanks in advance.

Adem,
Yes.

Adem-

Sorry I didn't get back to you earlier, I've been quite busy with some projects... but by the sound of it, you're on the right track with the vapor barrier over the open cell foam insulation.

Greetings,
I remodeled my kitchen and because the skylight required a total ceiling tearout and new micro beams to hold up the roof, I am considering using closed cell foam to insulate.
I want to use 7" around the skylight tunnel which will give me R49. However I feel I may as well continue the insulation over the kitchen ceiling which will be plaster (13'4' X 13'6") The electrician has said that electrical boxes to ceiling fixtures cannot be covered and must have something like a foam box put over it (like they do with roses in the winter) to allow access to the wire connections. Also, I will have recessed lights which are I.C rated. However with closed cell foam around it, would it still present a fire hazard? He says the I.C. is only rated for fiberglass or blown-in insulation

Thank you,
Ted

Ted,
You need to get an okay from your local building inspector. I would also call your local fire department and have the fire-prevention officer stop by for an opinion. You do not want to gamble with this situation.

Hello there,
I have attempted to type this 3 times. Each time my questions get shorter, so here goes.

I have a 70+yr old slate roofed cape style home in upstate NY. I am thinking of pulling out the fiberglass and getting blown in foam. I have spoken to both open and closed cell reps and neither brought up the moisture issue. The roof has no ventilation fan or vent. Am I getting myself into trouble with this project? Part of the upstairs is unfinished. If the roof leaked with open cell I understand I would readily see it. Closed cell I understand can divert a leak to another location, requiring one to go in search of the damage.

My other concern is with the basement. Both reps advise foaming the box sills to prevent the airflow into the house. As I have a moist basement wouldn't I make that damp smell worse if I seal off the air movement?

I need all the advise I can get.

Thanks

I have a cement block building that I am converting into a home. It is 120 ft by 30 ft with 12 ft ceilings. Do you think it is economically feasible to look into framing out the exterior walls and using spray foam or would regular insulation be enough to keep me out of the poor house with my utility bills?

If you are going to put foam in your house, talk with your architect/contractor about down-engineering your home. You may be able to get away with 2X4 where 2X6 lumber is needed to give enough space for conventional insulation. Also look at a smaller HVAC system.

Kindly,

Brian Hunt
www.roofcrafterswest.com

I have an old pier and beam house. Is it ok to spray foam insulation under the house? I have lots of air seeping thru the floor. Would I need to put some type of moisture barrier between the faom and subfloor?

Greetings: I have been researching foam and after reader the comments here, I am sold on the closed cell product. I recently bought a 15 year old home that was very well built. It was a foreclosure and I suspect sat empty for about a year. There was some water damage on the wall of the back of the house from snow build up on the deck so I tore out the sheet rock and found a fare amount of water damage and mold, etc, as I suspected. Going further, I decided to pull down the rest of outside walls in the living room, and the back of the vapor berrier was full of mold. Worse than the water damaged area? THe house is 2x6 construction, Built Rite Sheithing, 6" unfaced glass, 6 Mil Poly and 5/8 rock in Northern MN. I would not have suspected mold elsewhere in the walls, but now I am going to take it the studs everywhere. The wall cavities themselves and the studs are clean as the day they were put in. Just the Clear Poly -- now Black from Mold - and the fiberglass appears to be bad.

Can anyone tell me about what the upcharge over fiberglass is for a spray in for the whole house. I am planning on a complete renovation for the house with radiant floor heat, ground source heat pump, etc, etc, etc.

Regards;

Peter

I have heard that open cell will hold water if the "skin" is not removed. This could possibly explain the issues with water running down the wall cavity in the post above. Open cell in the ceiling is not usually "skinned" but ironically the open cell in a wall cavity is (to fit inside the studs). This is also bad since you are basically now placing a sponge in the wall cavity to absorb any vapor that might enter from inside or outside. I am in the mold business and have seen this a few times. My opinion is closed cell is the way to go. Look at www.buildingscience.com.

Referring to the previous two comments, I just finished closed cell spray foam on a project in Saratoga, NY. We sprayed 3 inches in the exterior walls of the 2 x 6 wall framing. The cost per square foot at that thickness was $3.90 per square foot. As a rule of thumb, figure about 1.33 per board foot (one square foot x 1" thick)

The open cell foam will wick moisture regardless of "skinning". The idea is to keep the moisture from penetrating the insulation from the heated side (which will have the moisture laden air) a spray applied membrane or 6 mil poly vapor barrier (with sealed joints) is the best way to accomplish this.

As a side note, when using closed cell foam for a whole house application, an HRV is recommended for fresh air supply, as the overall envelope will be sealed vitually air tight. This is great, as long as you combine systems to give you an energy efficiency, comfortable and healthy house. I'm using a company out of Utica call Standard Insulating Company of Utica. They are experienced professionals. I'm interviewed numerous insulation contractors, but there are many that buy the equipment and don't have the knowledge or equipment to do the project correctly.

I just purchased a house to discover the short (5 ft.) cathedral ceiling above a 6 ft knee wall has fiberglass batting insulation packed in it between the drywall and roof sheathing. The roof vents are in the peak above the cathedral ceiling. So the insulation acts as an air filter between the two attic spaces. I could push down the insulation with wood slats, but I would rather do a better job with closed cell polyurethane slow rise insulation under ventilation baffles. This requires removing the roofing sheathing, but I want to install a bathroom fan vent through the roof and that access is only through the roof sheathing. My question is twofold. Am I making too much work for myself? I have yet to find any info on insulation a the foot of knee walls where the ceiling/floor joists come out from the "conditioned" air space. Could I use the same closed cell insulation on top of some fiberglass packing at the opening to create a vapor/infiltration barrier there? (The space between the ceiling and floor is not insulated.)

I am extensively remodeling my condo. I can hear people walking on the floor above me. What kind of insulation (or whatever) will best deaden or eliminate the sound?

I live in pensacola fl. and I would like to know if the foam insulation could act as an adhesive to help bond the roof permantly to the shell of the house and to the other rafters? I'm thinking that it could help prevent the roof from going bye-bye in a hurricane.

I noticed the video for spray foam insulation. Are there any special techniques for existing homes with window framing in place? Would this require us to completely remove window framing?
Thanks,
K

Dan;
I am about to use closed cell spray insulation under the floor of my raised 25 yo house in Southern MS. I have concerns about unseen plumbing leaks etc. but feel closed cell far outperforms fiberglass or open cell in this application. Do you agree and what are the differences among the different manufacturers of closed cell foam insulation??
Robin

Dean and Dan - I am a complete novice in terms of building and have read your helpful posts. Just wondering if I could clarify and get your take on my situation.

I have a 1948 brick colonial in Virginia and recently installed a UNICO system for HVAC in my attic. The attic currently has very old loose cellulose insulation in the attic floor. The roof was recently replaced, and we found that the original wood plank decking was sound (a few planks were replaced). I would like to go with a closed-cell foam insulation installed in the 'hot-roof' manner you described. But will this trap our hot humid summer air inside the attic and overload the UNICO handler? Any thoughts/suggestions?
Thanks.

This is actually for DEAN:

Hi! I know this post is from quite a few months ago.... I am hoping notification goes out on new posts!!

I noticed you said you do work in upstate New York, where I live :-) I have been searching for a foam insulation contractor in the Westchester area for weeks and am unable to find anyone that does closed cell or anyone that something other than Icynene. Our house was built in the early 1900s and is 2x6 stud balloon frame, parts of some walls have fiberglass insulation. The house is stucco with wood sheathing and tar paper underneath. We are going to be replacing the stucco one side at a time and figured that would be a great time to insulate- the house is extremely humid and damp over the summer and extremely energy ineffecient (oil heat I might add), an in a very wet location. If you know of anyone in our area that does this type of work it would be great!!! if you post back I can reply with contact details :-)

Thanks!

One note on the article about the R-value determinig your energy savings. Because you have the same R-value insulation does NOT mean your energy bills will be the same. R-Value is currently a hotly debated topic in the insulation market. The issue is over the effective R-value of foam over the effective R-value of fiberglass or cellulose. There are numerous case studies proving the energy savings of foam. In Dallas/Fort Worth, TX, two indentical houses were built side by side. Everything was the same, except the insulation. One was fiberglass, one was foam. After completion the houses were heated and cooled throughout 1 year to observe the difference in energy consumption. The foam houses consistently proved to be over 40% more efficient than the fiberglass house. On a more personal note, a friend of my wife's has owned two rather large houses, around 4,000 sq. ft. One was fiberglass insulated, one was foam insulated. The fiberglass house utilities ranged from $300 to $900 per month, her foam home bill never touched $300 year round.

For qualifictions let me just say that I worked for the largest foam insulation chemical manufacturer. I've also installed and sold the product. I haven't been privilaged to build a home yet, but when I do it'll be foam all the way.

If you apply the closed cell insulation pray foam between wall studs and then cover with sheet rock, does that preclude ever running new electrical wire behind the walls? Should conduits be put in place for future possible electric needs.

Also is it possible to spray foam into the space between the interior and exterior walls of a (1920s) house that currently has no insulation? Can the closed cell foam be applied evenly in vertical spaces if the walls are not open (through holes in the exterior shingles?) Thanks. -Tam

Tamara,

When you spray closed cell foam insulation it only takes a little over 2 inches to meet the standard R-13 requirement. Since foam is sprayed on the backside of the exterior sheathing, this leaves over an inch of space between the foam and the sheetrock. So adding new electrical wiring down the road should not be a problem.

Regarding the existing house situation, there are several companies that have with is called a pour foam, which is just a slow reacting open cell foam. However, there is a lot of risk involved with this method so be sure any contractor you hire has experience using this technique.

Tim. my name is Scott Waste I own a spray foam and coating company and have a master contractor status with Apex Foam industries. I just read your artical about useing open cell foam in a attic so as it can leak water through itself if you have a roof leak so you know you have a leak. The reason i am writing this is to say that when open cell foam gets wet it holds mosture like a sponge and takes over 20 times longer to dry than if fiberglass was used, with that statement i propose useing closed cell foam for the fact that it is a vapor barrier by itself and will not absorb water and the exaporating time of water if the roof would leak would be much quicker at the decking underside there for not doing the damage that if you had a sponge against your roof boards.It wont let water through itself and why it is also a roofing surface approve system.Would love to talk at anytime about foam and coatings if you ever would like to , Thank you Scott waste 763-238-6310

Dean,

In what sort of climate does this "hot roof" application exist? I live in a very snowy part of the Midwest. After your comment, I am doubting the "cold roof" application in which my contractor would install furring strips then decking and new roof over the old roof. My roof joists are old-style 4X's and we'd like to finish the attic, so we need as thin an insulation as possible.

I'm building my first home and I want to do things right. My ceiling height is vaulted to the eve and my rafters are 2x10's with an 18" LVL which supports the whole roof which is metal. do I need to worry about moisture forming on the exterior of my ceiling if this is air tight?

Icynene is a good insulation, but I have found that BioBased soy based insulation is better and carries a higher R value and is made in the USA using american soy oil in part instead of imported petroleum. Both are open cell foams.

Makes sense to me.

I have an outside boiler with water lines running about three under ground. My problem is that I am losing about 50 degrees through the ground. I wanted to know if I had foam insulation blown all around the pipes if that would help? Would the moisture from ground water cause problems with the foam? If possible can you send me a reply to my email address? Thank you for your time with this matter.
Frank Sciortino

How about a new approach to home build. . .

insulated slab floor,
steel framing,
wall conduit for wiring & plumbing
brick outer walls,
closed cell foam from the brick to the interior surface of studs.
Drywall on last.

No exterior sheathing or vapor barrier since
no pockets??

Phil

Has anyone had any experience with Corbond's spray in insulation?

I've heard great things about it from my architect, but wasn't able to learn much from their website at www.corbond.com. Icynene has an R-value of 4/inch while Corbond has an astonishing 6.6/inch.

I figure that any additional cost would be offset by energy savings rather quickly.

I had brand new 1000 sq foot house with fiberglass insulation. Keeping the home cooled at 79 degrees cost me over 500 per month. I now have a 4200 sq foot house with 3200 of living with spray foam insulation and my bill is still 500 a month plus home is cleaner and no bugs get in, and my home is quieter with better accoustics. I used Icynene and I wish I wouls have done it in my cottage. Any one that says that its not worth the cost doesn't have a clue and if thats your contractor telling you that then I would speak to someone that has the product or has experience using it.

Does no one care about anything but 1 property that foam can supply...deos no one care about the dangers of foam....it's like buying car becasue it has a great Boise stero system, but no seat belts, old tires and a crapy 8 cyclinder engine...seriously...the smoke and flame spread will kill you, the R value is no where near what some other products offer, it has horrible sound control...and, if there is a pin leak in the plumbing, the foam ill soak it up and the area will be soaked with water before you ever know there is a leak..mold and mildew!!! and the cost...I have been told by sales people they can make as much commission on one foam job as they could make on 3 jobs insulated with other materials....people, people, people...do your research....

We've been in our house years and it's 6 years old. I've found several places that need insulation and want to use foam. Is it posible to pull out the pink fiberglass from behind the drywall and put in the foam uniformly. I'm thinking about going in from the top and then adding crown moulding.

What do you think about using foam to insulate roofs with only a partial attic. In my children's bedrooms, half of the ceiling is sloped with no attic. The attic area has blown insulation, but with a flashlight I can look down the void between the rafters to the areas where their ceiling is sloped and see no insulation.

Is this a good job for a do-it-yourselfer? Would you recommend foam?
The house was built in 1957 - located in Santa Maria, CA. We also have a wooden floow with a raised foundation.

About the foam blown in insulation, can it be put in the crawl space under the house next to the floor? Would this cause any problems under the house or would it be benificary?
My house is a steel framed with R-30 insulation (fiberglass)in the walls and ceiling area but the floors are cold and we are not sure what we need to do to make it warmer. Please help. Thank You

This may be a bit off topic but I am considering using foam insulation on a VW Vanagon. The concern amongst other bus owners is moisture condensation leading to rust. An open cell foam initially sounded like the way to go because of air circulation but now it sounds like creating an impervious vapor barrier, via closed cell foam applied to a dry surface in low humidity, might be the way to go? I have also been unsuccessful in finding the weight of expanding foam. Yes, it's relative to the thickness but any general idea? Thx for your insights.

Hi. I have a question about using spray foam insulation. I have a 20's house with a single-story sunroom off the side. Squirrels chewed through the trimwork, gaining access to the space between the ceiling and the tin roof of the sunroom. After erradicating the squirrels, I was thinking of filling the space with vegetable-based spray foam, to prevent their renesting next fall and to provide more insulation, to boot. What do you think? The only access is through 2 foot-wide holes underneath the gutter. Thank you for any thoughts!

My husband and I recently bought a 90+ year old row house in Philadelphia. The house was partially renovated, but unfortunately the investor did not spend the time and money to properly insulate because there is lathe behind most of the drywall. He was lazy! We would like to add insulation behind the existing walls at the front and back of the house since the sides receive insulation from the adjacent houses. What is the best type of insulation to use? The exterior of the house is very old brick (which he painted..agh!!) and we plan to stucco over it in the summer. I read up on foam insulation that has a slow rate of expansion and it seemed like a good choice so that we would not have to rip out the drywall. Is there a particular type of foam that I should use due to the water vapor present from the old exterior? Thanks for your time.

Dan
I have a walk out basement with closed cell instaltion. In one coner above ground i get water running out of the bottom. I had the closed cell foam done because it done this all over with fiberglass. can i put up a vaper baror?

I can't believe you guys actually entertained this discussion. I'm an HVAC professional and consider the spray foam far superior. The comments in the article are laughable! Why would you ventilate a sealed attic?!?

I am an Architect in New England and use to use Icynene on a lot of project and then on my own house. I installed it in a cathedral ceiling that was a hipped roof. After it was complete it looked great from the outside. Over I need to install some recessed lighting that was not put in before the fact. After cutting some insulation out I realized that there were major voids behind the inside surface of the insulation. After months of talking with reps and the installer, I wrote a letter to the VP of icyene telling him the problem. Finally I got the installer to fess up about the problem, saying it was falling out of the ceiling. His boss told him to proceed so they decide to try to push it up and hold it until it expanded between the bays. After talking with other installers of non-icynene products they said that it was most like because the inside surface temp. of the sheathing was not warm enough. Much like putting on paint the surface needs to be warmer rather than colder. So after countless emails, B.B.B. reports, and emails to corprate the installer finally decided to reimburse me the total cost. Now I just have a faulty ceiling insulation job with void all over the place that the only thing I can do is poke holes and fill with the canned foam. So my advice to every homeowner and even professional is to make sure you have installers that are reputable and be there while they are installing it. Lesson learned for me. Hopefully there will be no moisture trapped in the voids, or mold. Good luck.

would like some input, I'm remodeling my home and have the opportunity to purchase closed cell online on E-bay and apply it myself - approx 1700 board feet - can a do it yourselfer apply this? are there differences in products? please someone educate me - can and should i attemp this myself

I was wondering for a cathedral ceiling you need a very good ventilation/insulation. How about spray under the roof first a layer of open cell foam and then spray a layer of close cell foam! Will it accomplish the ventilation/insulation?
Thanks

Nando-

I wouldn't recommend the open cell/closed cell layering method. The open cell foam will not allow enough air passage to make it worthwhile. To adequately ventilate a rafter bay, proper vents would be required, with closed cell foam sprayed over them to form the air chase from the ventilated soffit area to the ridge vent. Care must be taken to insure that it is a tight fitting "air chase" so that when the foam is applied, it doesn't get into gaps in the proper vent installation, expand, and seal off the air flow. In an earlier post, I described the method I prefer and have used many times, which is NOT putting in ventilation. The closed cell foam is sprayed directly to the underside of the roof sheathing 5 to 7 inches thick, (depending on the desired R-Value....5" is very cost effective) from the bottom of the rafter bay extending to the outside of the stud wall, continuing up to and including spraying in the ridge board. No ventilation is required. There will be no condensation, mold, or rotting issues, as the water vapor inside the house cannot penetrate the closed cell foam and reach the dew point, which is typically 1/3 of the way into the R-value of any wall or roof assembly.

In reading back over some of the some of the questions, just wanted to give some input that may answer a few of your questions. Spray foam insulation is not conducive to installation in existing finished walls or ceilings. The stud wall cavity or rafter/truss area must be fully exposed for proper installation. If you have a moisture issue, it may be worth removing the drywall or plaster and lath to remedy the situation. In the long run, it will be worth it. Since spray foam approaches 3 times the price of installing fiberglass, if you are looking to stay in the house for at least 7 years, then I would definitely recommend it. Arguably, even if you are going to sell the house near term, it would be a good selling feature, as more people are recognizing the benefits (both comfort and energy savings) of a spray foam installation. Spray foam can be installed directly on any dry surface above 55 degrees, metal decking, concrete, wood, stone, etc. A fire rated covering is required (typically 1/2 inch drywall in living spaces). If the insulation is installed in an area that can't be covered with drywall, a spray-on flame retardant can be applied by the installer.

I'm currently renovating a building whose construction consists of wood framing against two widths of exterior brick. This brick is of the soft/more porous variety as the building most likely dates from the 1870's. I'm concerned about spraying foam insulation directly against the brick to fill the wall cavities. Are there any moisture/water vapor issues I need to address regarding the brick construction before I proceed with spray foam insulation? Your advice would be appreciated.

Greg-
A closed cell spray foam application is exactly what you want to do over the inside of the brick. As mentioned in early posts in this forum, closed cell foam is a vapor barrier, and will preclude moisture from permeating the brick from the inside out. No other interior vapor barriers will be required. Just make sure it is closed cell foam that is used.

I am looking into spray foam for a 4500 sf house in Connecticut, on the water. I am concerned with moisture not escaping and roof leaks not being detectected. About half the house has cathederal ceilings. The architect wants to spray foam the ext walls and ceilings to the sheathing. What is the best way to install the product to the walls and roof?

Dan, I am building a open work shed,I have a metal roof w/OSB underneath for sheating, to attempt stoping radiant heat from roof is spraying open cell sray insulation onto the sheating a good idea? 4000.00 in cost, also I live in Charleston S.C. high temperatures& high humidity. Thanks Neil Bailey

I am thinking of having my attic floor sprayed with closed cell foam. Should the vapor barrier between the ceiling gyproc and the foam be removed?

I have a masonry block house that is very cold in the winter. Especially the floors. Brrr!
The foundation is made of I-beams of concrete. Very sturdy but cold.
I can crawl into the crawl space and I would like to insulate underneath the floor. What do you recommend ??
Also, is there a spray can option? I don't have much money to spend since I am looking for work at this time.

I am building a new addition on my home and deciding between using fiber glass or open or closed cell foam. Appears open cell should be vented below roof and vapor guard installed on walls? But open cell is a safer, greener product? But fiber glass has been improved - denser, higher R factor per inch? What to do?
RC

Iam in new orleans were can I buy the foam insulation from

i have a house with a pool inside. that does not have a vapor barrier, installed around it .it has regular insulation installed in the walls,ceilings that are vaulted.there are hot and cold water pipes in attic.also there are heating and air cond.ducts also. and has soffit vents and ridge vents installed.has metal roof on house. bad leaks in heavy rains .dry days brown water runs out of soffit. bad ice dams in winter. what should i do

Burton-
Sounds like you have just about everything possible going on with your pool enclosure. I'm not sure how old your structure is, but pool room enclosures need careful planning and engineering to insure a comfortable environment with a long life expectancy. Swimming pools (especially when kept at desirable swimming temperatures), put an incredible amount of moisture into the air. To minimize surface evaporation, the air temperature must be 5 degrees warmer than the water temperature. (a pool cover during periods of non-use is highly recommended). A professionally sized and designed dehumidification system is the number one priority. There are several types available, one of which uses the heat from the dehumidification process to heat the pool water. Now...the structure...with a leaky metal roof, no vapor barrier, and water seeping from the soffit vents, severe ice dams in the winter, my recommendation (without seeing it) would most likely be a "skin off" of the entire structure. More than likely, if this evaporation /condensation cycle had been going on for a number of years, there will be some structural issues that need to be addressed. If you do decide to go the rebuild route, closed cell spray foam in my estimation would definitely be the best insulation method. it will also eliminate problems with the water lines and ductork in the trusses of the vaulted ceiling. The spray foam should cover the entire underside of the roof decking. Moisture resistant drywall should be installed (once you get to that point) and a good water proofing primer and semi gloss paint will do the trick for the finish. The dehumidification system design is crucial.
My advice would be to contact a reputable contractor who has experience in constructing pool enclosures..or at the very least, have an engineer look at it to help define the scope of work.
You'll have to weigh the merits of the swimming enjoyment with the cost of the repairs....it will not be cheap.

Darryl-

www.sprayfoam.com has listings of contractors nationwide. It's also a good resource for information

Randall-
Depending on the size of your addition,the cost effectiveness of an open cell spray foam (I personally am a closed cell foam advocate) may be an issue depending on the spray foam rates in your area. If the addition has 3 exterior walls and a decent amount of windows, a high performance (R-21)unfaced fiberglass insulation with a WELL INSTALLED vapor barrier may be the way to go. If the ceilings are cathedral or vaulted, both the open cell foam or fiberglass will have to have continuous proper vents installed in each bay from the soffit to the ridge to insure adequate ventilation. Closed cell foam,on the other hand, when installed in a cathedral or vaulted ceiling can be applied directly to the underside of the roof deck. As far as "greenness" of the products, there is now a soy based closed cell spray foam available...which is green certified.
If you have a flat ceiling area with attic space above, excessive amounts of fiberglass or cellulose blown in insulation would be the most cost effective. Don't forget to put a vapor barrier on the ceiling before drywall as well. Make sure the proper vents are open into the soffit beyond the exterior wall (unless you used closed cell foam, in which case ventilation is not necessary)

ARE THERE MORE RECENT EXPERIENCES FROM KNOWLEDGEABLE PEOPLE...ESPECIALLY OPEN VS. CLOSED CELL

I was reading the article and it seems there are some serious misconceptions about spray foam insulation. I studies up on it HARD for 3 years before starting up a company doing it and I very highly suggest going to sprayfoam.com where you have contractors, experts, suppliers and more all who will answer questions honestly. As for open cell, I prefer closed cell on a roof since it will seal a minor leak instead of the insulation being soaked. Either one can be hard to detect the location of a leak with so that is not a major factor.

As for the vapor and a house needing to "breath" and etc, a good HVAC company will understand how to deal with the "HCH" (They better understand that term if you plan to hire them!) will be down to .02 fro .07 and not just say it makes no difference. You want to seal a house tight and then ventelate it in a controlled manner where you can filter the air, control moisture and also use items like an HRV to reduce energy waste.

As for the brand, open cell is open cell, closed cell is closed cell. If the foams are of the same or clse in density (aka .5lb, 2lb oe etc) then there are only so many ways you can get the same end results with the same equipemnt. Also soy is really no greener than other forms since they tend to be a sucrose based poly with both having about the same petrol content.

BTW, you may want to read up on R-values, U-values and the differences as well as how they are determines. Insulation works by preventing air movement and other forms use fibers so air moves within the insulation. Add any wind leaking to the insulation from the outside or etc and the values take a nose dive. Since foam uses bubbles it does not tend to have this problem. If you have questions, feel free to email or contact me and I will answer them to the very best of my ability and knowledge. I am not worried about selling it to you as much as helping people make an educated choice so bieng out or in my area makes no difference in how I will treat or answer you.

Quenint

Spray vs Fiberglass with sqft in mind on a new construction off-frame modular:

I've been trying to work out the benefits of each type of insulation for a 12/12 pitch roof we're planning on converting into finished space, and I'm not sure I've got things right.

We're in Western NC, so we need R-38 which seems to equate to 12" of standard, 10" of HighPerformance Fiberglass or 6" of Corbond. The manufacturer put 2x6's in the roof, and included 2x2's for furring - which doesn't seem to help much with fiberglass insulation.

We've got 4' knee walls and collar-ties around 8' - so insulation depth isn't an issue for those areas. But the 7' or so stretch of pitched ceiling in between is causing the issue. Let's say the 6" insulation is the baseline, because that's what is there to start with... if we furred in 6" (both sides) for the standard, we'd lose 46sqft (our house is 46' long) in the finished space, give or take. In our area, cheap is $100/sqft, we're shooting for around $220/sqft on a ~1900 sq.ft house.

I've read that I should expect $1/board foot for Corbond, so I figured (46' house = 552" - 100" of 2x6's = 452" = ~38' x 6' = 228' x 2 = 456 board feet x 6 (depth) = $2736.

With that in mind, does the Corbond pay for itself at $100/sqft? Or am I completely off in how I'm working this out.

Also, since the sprayed insulation wouldn't be running the full length of the roof, would there still be a need for a space for airflow behind the sprayed insulation?

Any help is appreciated.

Hobart, I would check with local building officials on the R-38 requirements since many times they will allow foam at a reduced depth due to it being much more efficient and performs about 40% better than fiberglass of the same R-values. It can make a big difference in the end costs.

As to going the entire length of the roof, you need to ventilate any areas with fiberglass since it requires a way to prevent moisture ar the contact point between it and the roof unlike foam. Also the brand of foam makes little difference and is mostly what the sprayer is used to with no real difference in brands.

You may also want to look online at places like eBay where sveral companies like mine due Handyman Specials where we spray but the owner does prep and cleanup. Foam is a pretty expensive product but can mean a large savings in energy with proper planning and we can see prices already going up again with them ever going down like we had a few years back being pretty slim. Like most things, you can pay upfront or pay for the life of the product and usually the upfront is the best way to pay since it is cheaper in the end.

If open cell foam allows water to pass through, how well is it really insulating? Common sense says if water penetrates then air definitely does

Tim, I've been reading this column about spray foam insulation. My house is mid-century modern built in 1962. There is no attic because the roof is a flat roof (rubber) with a slight slope for runoff. The rubber is black of course which heats up big time in the summer. The roof is built with 2x8 joists leaving me only 7.5" to insulate. Can I use spray foam to fill the 7.5" of space in the ceiling joists? I'm due for a new furnace which will help but the there is little to none insulation as energy was cheap back then...
Thanks,
Derek

Derek, If you have the ceiling down where it can be sprayed to the underside of the roof deck then it will work great for filling between the joists. If not, then you may want to look at the foam roofing systems for flat/low slope roofs wich goes over the existing roof frequently and you can pick the color which will help if you go to white.

SIPs are the best choice for new construction the cost is comparable if not outright less than stick and spray foam. Now for renovations a spray foam is the best insulation choice. Don't be fooled by low cost icynene, you get the performance you pay for. Urethane is the best foam in place system there is. But there is no question SIPs are best for new construction or new roofs and addition projects.

To All,
I'm a general contractor in the Houston area. We have our own spray foam rig. Icynene is a brand of foam insulation. Most foam, once cured, is pretty much the same. No one foam out gains the other. Some are soy based, some water based. The product I use is made from sugar cane. Don't fall for a sales pitch on the brand of foam.
The problem with foam insulators is finding one that does a good job with the application process. If it's not installed right it won't yield the results you've paid for. When getting quotes, almost never use the cheapest quote. They are trying to get in and out as quickly as possible.
Open cell has an R-value of approx. 3.9 per inch. Closed cell is approx. 6.2 per inch. Open cell usually deters approx. 41 db per inch of noise. Closed cell deters approx. 38 db per inch, of noise, because the closed cell insulation gets hard it can reverberate. We use closed cell in our wine rooms, theatre rooms, etc. The closed cell is a superior product compared to the open cell. Not that the open cell is bad or doesn't perform, the closed cell is just a better product. FEMA only recognizes closed cell insulation. Not only does it have insulating properties, but it has structural properties as well, and because it is closed cell it is pretty much impossible for mold to grow in it.
Usually you downsize your HVAC units by approx. 40%, DO NOT over size your HVAC units in a foam house. When you foam you want a sealed envelope, you want almost no breathing of the structure. A complete opposite of the old way of building. You have a fresh air intake on your HVAC system that controls the air environment in the house. You want a smaller unit that runs longer. If a large unit doesn't run enough moisture can build up in the house.
2 shingle companies that I know of have given foam insulation it's stamp of approval. GAF, ELK, etc. have all approved it. Elk claims that it can inhance the longevity of the shingle. Some of the others don't want to pay for he testing. If there is a problem with a shingle you'll know in a matter of days.

Foam insulation and R-Value have very little to do with each other.
If you take the time to understand the way R-Values are tested and measured you will get a better idea how to compare the two. ALL insulation is tested for heat transfer in a vacuum. NO air movement at all. When you introduce air movement into the equation, fiberglass becomes a thick furnace filter. Do you consider your furnace filter insulation? With air movement the R Value of fiberglass is derated by more than half. So your R13 wall insulation is in a real world situation an R 5-6. Bob stated that with caulk and Tyvek you can get almost the same result. Maybe 10-20 cases of caulk, because every single seam, hole, crack, joint, in your house from the tip of the roof to the foundation MUST be caulked with a silicone caulk. Foam stops air, and therefore eliminates the need for additional air barriers. Foam’s R Value is not affected by air movement. On another note most foams used in houses is NOT vapor barriers. Moisture will eventually move through foam. All foams are manufactured by a few large companies, like Dow, or Bay Systems. Smaller mixers like Icynene and Delilec buy the product from large manufacturers difference.

Dear Tim,
I have read all of your chats but still dont have an answer adressed about open vs closed cell foam. I have one insulation guy telling me that closed cell is the best because it has the best r factor etc. I also have another builder telling me that he would never put closed cell in the attic against the roof. The builder's rationale is that if the roof has a leak in it and you have non-permiable closed cell foam, then it will take longer for you to notice the leak and cause rotting of your roof decking. He says that he only uses open cell foam against the roof decking because of this. We live in Texas where it is 105 already in june and we want the best insulation for our new home we are building. I am concerned about the roof leak issue but cant find a site that adresses this issue. Please help me with this decision.
thank you
Sarah

Sarah,
We install both types of foam insulation in Texas and Louisiana. I would like to try and help make your decision for you. Let's look at a couple different scenarios. First, how often do you have a roof leak, if ever? Second, if you used closed cell and you had a leak, you might have to worry about some decking rotting. Not so bad. Third, if you used open cell and you had a leak, now you're possibly having to replace decking, sheetrock, paint, carpet, wood trim, funiture, and now you have to worry about mildew and mold. Try not to get caught up in worrying about a leak. Look at the over all scope of things. We install both foams so we aren't bias, although we do prefer closed cell, because it performs much better. Also, when you're foaming a house, you have to look at more than just R-value. The closed cell foam provides a better R-value, but is not going to breathe as much, which is a good thing when you're foaming. It is VITAL that you DO NOT oversize your HVAC units. I hope this helps and doesn't create more questions.

Sincerely,
Ryan

I have a raised house 3' off the ground that I use on weekends. Would spraying the underneath side help reduce ac costs in the summer. Also the house has came close to flooding within 2" during last yrs hurricane & need to know if the insulation would absorb water or wouldn't be recommended at all, don't need no house boat.

Dear Tim,

I want to insulate the underside of my pier and beam home in Louisiana. The old fiberglass insulations got wet after a flooding incident. Which is better for this application, open or closed cell?
Thanks!

I don't know anything about insulation. I am curious what you thought of the Terminix attic foam insulation (R48). The inspector says it not only insulates, but it will kill the bugs as well (spiders, silverfish, etc).
We are thinking of getting foam insulation for our small attic. It has existing old insulation (looked thin). He says they will just blow the foam on top of the existing one. Is this good? I am worried too that doing so would blow all the dust, bugs, etc all over the house?

I am finishing an enclosed porch on my house and am considering using spray foam insulation for the floor. I plan to enclose the area under the porch in order to reduce the influence of outside air. What type of foam can anyone recommend, closed cell vs open cell? Also what thickness would be neccesary to acheive the proper r-value?

Our older farm house doesn't have an ounce of insulation. We know we want spray foam insulation, but would like to know your thoughts on having it sprayed in the walls from the outside, so that the sheetrock does not need to be gutted and later redone. I've done some research and have found that a retrofit spray foam job is about 75 cents per square foot more expensive than one done on open walls. I have no idea how much it would cost to have all of the sheetrock redone. Which do you think is the most cost effective way of getting the job done?

I live in New Orleans and I am thinking about having foam sprayed on the underside of my roof between the rafters. The installer wants to close the soffit vents and power vent to get rid of any outside air. Considering my attic gets to 130 degrees during the summer, this seems like a good idea. Tha central AC and ductwork is located in the attic. My problem...I have read pros and cons, now I am confused!

Alan

My question just had foam insulation done in our home. Now i am thinking about puttin up new dry wall in one of the rooms, will I ruin the foam insulation I just had put in if I do this??

Thanks for your help.
Wolfgang

I'm an Energy Rater and the climate factor does have an impact of how much foam to install and what kind you need. Spray foam on a roof deck under the shingles is fine for quality shingles and should be completely air tight to alleviate moisture infiltraition. You need open cell foam on attic roof decks so you can spot roof leaks. The foam will dry out good as new once the leak is stopped. Condensation ONLY forms where warm moisture landen air settles on cool surfaces and the temperature and relative humidity are right. Closed cell foam may not show water leaks for a longer period of time because it is less permeable so I only recommend it on walls. Don't enclose attics or crawl spaces or houses with natural draft furnaces or hot water heaters....you need closed combustion appliancces. If you're doing the attic floor just flash and blow. Install 1 to 2" of foam to seal then blow fiberglass. To know the difference is to understand that enclosing the furnace and ducts is the bonus factor getting them out of extreme weather temps and justifying the price.
I don't like cellulose out side of a sealed cavity because it is more susceptible to moisture of long periods then fiberglass, think about it, paper vs fiberglass, so I only recommend it in walls to save money.

You shouldn't start sealing a house without a benchmark ventilation rate and target ventilation for ASHRAE Standard ventilation for occupants and building air flow. Mechanical ventilation is better than natural ventilation because it filter and pre-conditions the air taking out moisture. Yes, contact an energy rater in your area. No I'm not biased because I'm not nationwide but I am biased toward building science. Test before you invest.

I live in a mobile home in South Louisiana, wanting to replace old fiberglass insulation underside of home, with spray foam should I use open cell or closed cell and why?

Thanks,Mary

I have fiberglass insulation in my attic and I want to add some blown in insulation on top of it. My question is our house has about 30 recessed lights through out and I now the lighting can come in contact with the insulation but is it safe to bury it under the blown in?

I recently had a moisture problem in my attic due to an improperly vented dryer as a result had black mold and the fiberglass insulation was soaked with water. Remove all insulation, cleaned the module and now need to re-insulate. I was thinking of using either cellulose or spray foam. Do i need to put in a vapor barrier with cellulose or open cell foam. If i use closed cell foam i believe i would not have to use a vapor barrier. Not sure the route i am going to take trying to gather as much info as possible before buy cellulose or spray foam. Any help would be great. Thanks in advance.

Tim -
I want to add foam insulation to my exterior facing livingroom wall. It's an old 100 yr brownstone in Hoboken NJ and it's ice cold during winter. It's plaster/Lathe and I assume balloon construction. So my concern is that the foam might simply fall into an abyss. Can you point me in the right direction?
Thank you!
Tom

I'm a general contractor in CA.

After reading your article, I'm wondering if foaming is just expensive. In other words, I just had a 4,000 sf home bid and it came up to $32,000, fiberglass was $5,200.

Using Tyvek around the building I have no air leaks. So, why spend the money if you're not going to see significant results.

My nephew is fixed on using foam as another article gave him the opinion that he'll save, in energy bills, as much as $400.00 a month in offset of foam vs fiberglass.

I'd like to hear your opinion on this as no one is listening to me.

Thank you,

John

How about a combination of foam applied directly to roof decking for 50% of attic and dense packed cellulose blown into 8" deep space between rafters for remaining 50% of attic?

Currently, we have ductwork running through an unconditioned attic space in our Chicago home. 15 year old R19 batts are in place. One bid was interestingly unique. It proposes spraying about 50% of the attic's roof decking with foam using dense packed cellulose for the remaining 50% of the roof's surface area because that area is not accessible via their foam sprayer. (About 50% of the roof is a series of 8" deep, 16" wide, 5 to 6 foot long cavities formed by the roof deck on top, ceiling sheetrock on bottom, and the two roof joists on either side.

They propose that this would extend the heated / cooled envelop to the roofline and eliminate the need for attic venting. While 100% foam applications also assert that roof vents can be eliminated, would this proposal also work?

I own a home in Colorado where the attic is 820 sq ft. My home was built in 73'. is there anyway to have the spray foamed inserted where there are air leaks and blow in the remaining attick with blown in insulation? I am trying not to have to put a second mortgage on my house (only kidding) to get value for the insulation. What type of blown insulation is the best for its price? Can you recommend someone in the Denver area that may be able to assist?

Thank you

I just purchased a home 30 years old in the Tennessee mountains. The ceilings are vaulted.
I would like to insulate them without tearing the drywall down. Can I use the spray insulation to accomplish this? Or do I face the possiblility of
having drywall pops.
I am sure it is poorly insulated due to the age and also is does not even have a ridge or siffit vents.
Can you suggest anything?

I need to install insulation in my crawl space. By reading the above, it sounds at one point you would prefer foam, but fiberglass or cellulose would work the same if they both had the RX factor. My question is, which one is better than the other (even with the same RX factor.)? Which would you choose if it was your home?
In addition, I heard the fumes of the foam are deadly if there was a fire. Again, which one as far as safety, and efficiency is better?

Thanks!
Scott

Our house is wall boarded but uninsulated. Is it possible to install spray foam insulation through small openings in the wallboard that can then be patched? We don't want to tear out the walls. Thanks.

The floor of my attic was insulated with fiberglass (not very much) so about two years ago I had spray foam insulation (open cell) applied to the underside on the roof in the attic. Everything seemed fine the temp in the attic was lower. Two years later I replaced my AC unit inside and out with a high effeciency American Standard unit, it was the best they had to offer in the $9000.00 range. Since it was installed the humidity level in my house has never gone below 60% and the inside unit sweats, no pours water on the exterior on the coil casing and the plenum. It's only a month old and the screws are starting to rust. The AC installers have sent experts (?) here to solve the problem. There solution is to remove all of the old fiberglass insulation from the attic floor. Does that make sense? We never had any problems with the 17 yr old AC. I live in New Orleans where it is always humid. Any suggestions would be very much appreciated!! Thanks

Can I spray foam into my old house that has knob and tube wiring?

I have an early 1900's two story old house; am seeking to be able to insulate the outer walls. What would be the best method to do this? I have r-30 matted the attic? This home is in Kentucky.

Hi, I'm looking to build a home. The builder I'm looking at is a master builder in Sc. He says he's also a green builder. I have been looking for a while at spray foam insulation and think it's the better way to go but the builder is talking me out of it. He has alot more experience than me and has a house that was done in spray foam that is completely covered in mold now because the house could not breath. what should i do? Do I take him at his word or do I look at another builder. Is mold typical in a home that can not breath?

I live in central TX, Metal welded buildings are common. We built a metal home with metal roof. the house was sprayed with closed cell foam, everything was covered from soffit to ridge. Our furnace unit is in the attic. we have cathedral ceilings with the attic space on the side on the 2nd story. the dry wall was fastened to the C purins with foam sprayed directly on the underside of the metal roof sheeting not allowing for any ridge ventilation. The attic areas are tight also. Do you feel this is right or should we try to vent the attic space? Should I worry about condensation being a problem where the spray is attached to the underside of the roof panels...
JIM

Is it recommended to use foam insulation under the flooring where there is a crawl space under the house with exposed dirt? I have been told not to use insulation by one contractor because the heat from the house needs to keep the pipes below the house from freezing. Another contractor told me to insulate without a vapor barrier. Should I insulate with the foam spray? I can't figure out who to believe!

I built my home 2 years ago and the attic has a full plywood floor for storage space. My Insulation contractor used 1 inch of spray foam(blueish green in color)on the entire ceiling of the second floor (underside of attic floor) and then installed traditional fiberglass batt insulation with paper vapor barrier. I have read alot of mixed reviews about water vapors being traped between the fiberglass and the foam causing problems. Should I have the attic floor removed with the foam and blown in insulation added to the top of the fiberglass?

Thanks
Concerned homeowner
jon

We want to use foam insulation in our basement on the celing. It is a little damp but a few years ago we had the basement waterproofed. We also have a pellet stove in the basement that is run during the weekend only. We had someone come in and give us a quote on spraying the celing, they quoted closed cell around the exterior band board and open cell the rest of the celing with a intumescent paint to provide a thermal barrier. Am trying to find out if this sounds ok. Or should we go to a closed cell completely????

Hi there. I hope there are still some people reading this.
I am a homeowner looking to improve my knowledge so I dont run into the same issues I have in the past with poor contractors and there even poorer work
I put an addition on my home and unfortunatly my builder never put proper sofit, ridge vents or any roof venting for that matter. He also put r-30 insulation on the 2X10 roof line frame, with minimal true vent channels. I pulled some of the ill fitting fiberglass insulation off to find that the roof seems to be sweatting. I am looking for a good solution to correct the situation. I want to Make the old side a finished attic and the new side houses the hvac unit.
With the spray foam insulation approach, I am afraid that I will have issues with sweating below the roof sheeting. It seems this wont be the case with the closed cell foam. On the other hand if I use closes cell foam, I am worried I will have problems if the roof has a leak.
Is this correct, also what would be your approach in this situation.

I am hoping someone has a good solution for me.
Thank you in advance

Recently bought a 1930s residential building. Previous owner did new HVAC and thermal windows. Original insulation exists. Is there away to apply spray foam without tearing out the walls etc?

we are getting ready to build a 24x 40ft gambrel roofed pole barn, that we will work in. we will be using the upstairs for a art/work studio and the downstairs machine shop we will be using radiant floor heat ...but im confused about insulating the place we are located in rochester ny area and i like the idea of the spray foam we will have metal roof and board and batten siding we want to wrap the house with tyvek and were thinking of a dubble bubble foil under the roof metal
Help....
Thanks
Robert Jeffery

I am considering spray foam insulation in my attic. The floors were treated with blown fiberglass and floored about 16 years ago. This contractor wants to spray the sides of the roof and spray foam over the attic vents.
A second contractor suggests taking out the blown insulation and spraying the foam on the floor area.

Now, I am totally confused. What do you think?
The house is a two story all brick colonial built in 1945.

Hi,
I am thinking about ripping off my roof and then using spray foam from the outside in order to avoid a mess inside the house. I want to use 1 inch over the entire attic for a continuous vapor barrier, and then a full 6 inches on the cathedral ceiling and the first food around the edge. I would the reuse the fyberglass bats on the flat portions as I can put as much of this as I want, to try and get r-50. Does this sound feasible?

Hello,

I have a 800 sq home that is so cold in the winter, I have to keep my heat way up. I'm thinking about the foam insulation in my walls, but its very expensive. They quoted me $1800 for my home.

Both my front & back doors are warped and need to be replaced.

What can you tell me to insulate my home without the high cost? What are the best Exterior Doors to buy without them warping?

I'm single and don't have a lot of money to work with.

Thank You for all your help.

Debbie

Dean, you are the man. Hard to find info as good as you just posted. Very educational.

Thanks!

Dean it is obvious you sell the closed cell. It is also obvious you havent done any research as to where vapor barriers are recommended, which is maybe the coldest dryest 10% of the U.S., anywhere else they just do damage. Ever heard of a dehumidifier? If people keep there home at a reasonable humidity, moisture vapor will not be an issue. The ONLY places they recommend vapor barriers are for places TRYING to keep moisture IN. Dans problem seems like another reason NOT to use foam PERIOD, it is obvious the lack of moisture vapor release through attic ventilation will cause roof condensation. ATTIC VENTILATION IS A MUST, FOAM INSULATIONS ARE RIP OFFS. DO NOT LISTEN TO DEAN THE FOAM LIAR, THESE GUYS ALL USE THE SAME LIES OVER AND OVER. R-value is R-value, R-10 of closed cell is EXACTLY the same as R-10 of anything else, except vapor barriers will most likely harm your house. When they try to sell you on a comfortable attic, ask them why in the hell would you want to condition all of that space for a big closets worth of HVAC? Foam guys will install R-19 where R-60 is recommended, and they will lie through their teeth about how R-value doesnt matter. They never have moisture vapor escape plans, and even though your house is REQUIRED to breathe, they will use the classic "just like an igloo cooler" sales pitch.....guess what crooks.....living in an igloo cooler will kill you.

Should I consider roof pitch and heighth of roof when making decisions about spraying roof decking? In other words can a roof that is sprayed with foam lose efficiency as the roof heighth
increases?

I have an un-insulated frames shed (16x20). The walls have tar paper and T-111. The roof is tar paper and architectural shingles. I live in Florida. Can I have the underside of the roof and walls sprayed? Will vapor be able to escape? The building will be heated and cooled only when occupied (a few hours a day max). Should it be open or closed cell?

Thanks for any help!
Jamie

guys i know this is an old article but i was reading it online shaking my head.i have been spraying foam for a long time and this information provided is notwhat i have experienced in my home or career. there is almost no situation that open cell is better than closed, except for soundproofing.no airspace is needed according to g.a.f. and elk,shingle surface is actually cooler with spf get a thermal image. the attic should not be the way to expell moisture,it should be handled with your hvac system.dan has a classic problem with open cell foam(indoor rain.)the icc is trying to address this issue. please don't think i am discouraging the use of open cell because it is much much better than anything on the market, besides closed cell.the info discussed above is well meaning,and probably from a company that excells in the open cell market, but not based in fact.

i am sorry greg is one of those guys that is mis-informed. NAHB says the tighter a house the healthier. there is no tighter available insulation. everthing else i.e. movement of air and moisture should be moved with a well thought out hvac system. if your house is tight than the only moisture or pollutants in you house are what we produce i.e. showers,cooking,dishwasher,gas fireplaces, all can be handled by a well designed hvac at about 1/2 to 2/3 of the tonnage of a traditionally insulated house.

I am planning to finish my basement. I plan to to put one inch of XPS foam on the floor and then Home Advantage 23/32 CAT Enhanced OSB Sub-floor (from Homedepot) on top of it.

Then I plan to build a 2×4 stud wall with 1.5 inch gap between the concrete and the stud. I plan to get all my electrical work done before I get 2 inches of closed cell foam sprayed against the concrete.
Additionally I plan to use blown in fiberglass in the remaining cavities between the stud. I plan to put house wrap stapled to the studs and blow the fiberglass insulation from the top.
I want to keep my basement real warm. I was planning to do cellulose but then I read to not use cellulose where moisture could be an issue.

As of now my basment is pretty dry or visibly dry . Its a new construction less than 2 years old.

Can you advise me if I am going in the right direction? I live in Iowa

I have recently had my basement insulated with spray foam. My insurance company has done an inspection of the residence and claims that Foam insulation is comb ustible and releases toxic fumes when exposed to fire. They also mention that foam insulation must be protected by a therrmal barrier as per manufacturesrs instructions and/or as specified in the building code. Can you pse provide some clarification on this, and what are the requirements? Thanks so much.

According to what I've read, it is okay to put up attic ventilation baffils and spray over them with closed-cell foam?

Also, can foam be used directly onto an exterior wall instead of foam filling, leaving space in front of (interior) the foam for wires, pipes and the like? If so, which is best - closed or open cell?

Thank you.

I am about to signoff on a sprat foam contract. The contractor wants to use 5" of open cell spray foam on the under side of my flat roof. He says the overall insulation will be better than an R30 fiberglass application. Spray foam has about a 3.5 per inch R value but I am being told you cant just compare one to the other. In the end which is the better choice? An R30 fiberglass or 5" of spray foam?

I am look at a house to buy that has foam in the attic. It is on the under side of the decking. There is no ventilation. The house in in north alabama. We have a lot of high humidity. I love the house but the foam insulation is new to me and this part of the country. What are the pros and cons of this type of insulation in the attic.
Reitzel

I am planning on using closed cell Polyurethane to insulate my newly constructed house shell. The walls are not a problem but I was planning on spraying the ceiling before putting up the plaster board. What would make a good inexpensive backing material that I can spray 8 to 10 inches of poly foam against?

hi dan

i live in a condo 1st floor to much noise from above what is best soulation for soundproofing ceiling do not mind gutting ceiling 4 story building with metal truss construction i believe truss are 16 inch height there is 10 fiberglass insulation there now what is best spray foam and fireproof insulation to use also what about sound proof drywall cost or is it good to double up 5/8 drywall

Hi Tim,

I am building a large home(40,000 s.f.) for a client in the Chicago area on Lake Michigan. The Architect that designed the home is from Texas. No roof ventilation was specified(typical in Texas?), and because of the design is very difficult to install. The Architect suggested closed cell foam in all attic areas sprayed directly onto to underside of the roof deck between rafters. I have allways provided ventilation due to the climate in Chicago and am concerned of condensation. Is this adequate? Your comments are appreciated.

Thank you,
Patrick McGreal
http://www.builder101online.com

We are in Mississippi, and want to insulate and air condition and heat an 840 sq ft barn building which has a metal roof on frame rafters,and has wood exterior painted walls nailed to wood 2x4 studs. There is no vapor barrier. Electrical is run in conduit through the exterior walls.

We have received differing opinions on the need for a vapor barrier (since there isn't one and the cost of removing the siding to add one is prohibitive. Some have suggested spraying foam insulation in the wall cavities and directly on the roof surface. We would like to keep the ceiling vaulted, as it is, and so would place the wood ceiling and walls directly on the wall studs and rafters and over the wall insulation without barrier.

My question is whether we will be creating a problem by having insulation in the wall. Would we be better to just wrap the interior walls with tyvek or similar and leave the walls uninsulated, as the walls are now in the original house. In the original house, walls are 2x6 and are plaster. We insulated the ceilings in the attic and comfortably and affordably cool and heat.

Years ago, a now-famous local architect advised not insulating these older houses, saying that it was the air movement in the walls and floors that kept them standing for 150 years or more.

Advice?

Although not in the insulation business, I am in the energy conservation business and work with a team of consultants and contractors on Energy Savings Performance Contracts (ESPC). R-value is a factor, but the superior benefit of foam is how it seals the building envelope. R-value is a static property that becomes almost irrelevant when wind loading and stack effect move air through the envelope as infiltration and infiltration. One consequence of applying foam insulation to an existing structure is elevated relative humidity and higher CO2 concentration due to the absence of infiltration/infiltration of the structure. Foam insulation of walls and ceilings is highly effective, but insulating an attic is even exponentially more so. In most cases, we have to add an air conditioning zone to the attic and heat recovery ventilators to the HVAC system(s).

What are your thoughts TAPS insulation? Would you recommend it over the foam? Thanks!

Hello,

My name is Tony Tedesco, an insulation subcontactor in New york. I have the ability to spray open and close foams. I can also install fiberglass batts or blow in fiberglass. I have a customer who wants to do a hot roof system, but is worried about the longevity of the roof. He is asking a lot of questions and I do not have all the answers. Want do you recommend as the best type of insulation for a roof in the New York climate zone. Unvented or vented roof? Thickness of what type of foam, etc? Please note, he will also have an ERV. Thanks

The article states that if you install sprayfoam and it has the same r-value as fiberglass you will not save money. This is RIDICULOUS !

R value indicates the Materials ability to resist thermal transfer (resistance). R value doesnt address the most crucial element of insulation - HEAT loss

Up to 60% of the heat loss is through convection - you will loose your heated air right through the gaps and air passages around fiberglass.

Spending MUCH MUCH more money insulated with fiberglass.

Since I read the whole thread...I might as well give my 2cent. Not an expert but I have done considerable research on the subject.

It makes sense to add foam insulation to the underside of the roof decking Your roof is basically one big radiator...The Sun bakes down on the roof and if your roof is black well guess what?..It is bringing the HEAT...The more square footage the roof ,the more the heat source and can transfer into your home...I think shielding the living space from a considerable heat/cold source just makes a slew of sense...

Second open or closed cell...Well again open cell you will find your leak source faster...But that also means you will leak faster and possible more damage...Closed cell seems to make more sense to limit the damage...You might not find it as fast but it will protect more...

With the humidity transfer in your attic space...I have soffit vents and a ridge vent and have no intent of spraying over those...In other words my attic space will still be vented just as it was before. I am insulating the underside of the roof decking not my vents...I would recommend to always have venting

I live in the deep south...My intent is to eliminate a very large heat radiator in my attic...

how do I know I'm getting the thickness of foam on a flat roof that I am paying for? For that matter, how does the contractor know for sure what the thickness is as he is spraying the foam?

What will be result when insulation (Calcium Silicate) is soaked with water.

We just had a spray foam applied to the cathedral ceiling area of one room in our home. The foam was applied by the contractor onto the top side of the ceiling boards as they had access during a re-roofing project (asphalt shingles). Once the sheeting was replaced, there was approximately 3 inches left between the foam and the underside of the roof sheeting. This is in a cold climate. Was this approach proper, or are we headed toward trouble down the road?