Concrete and Flagstone Patio Tips

By Tim Carter
©1993-2008 Tim Carter

Summary: Concrete and flagstone will create a flagstone patio of beauty and durability that will save you thousands in cash if you do it yourself. From patio stone purchase, to grout, mortar and use of the rock hammer - here's how.

Concrete & Flagstone Tips

If you decide to try to build a brick patio like mine, you do not have to worry about the concrete finish. All that is important is that there are no high spots. Take your time and wiggle a board side to side across the forms you have built to create the shape of the patio. Low spots can easily be filled with more mortar. High spots will create a hump in the patio, unless you know how to sand a brick!

Flagstones are somewhat easy to lay. I prefer to install the border first. Remember to sort through the flagstones you have purchased. You are looking for the thickest pieces of flagstone. Ideally you should try to get a batch of flagstone that has fairly consistent thickness, but this is not always possible. The thickest piece of flagstone sets the tone for the amount of mortar that will be under each successive piece of flagstone that is installed. If you make a mistake and install a thinner piece of flagstone as your first piece, you will end up having a hump or a series of humps in your patio as you continue to install the stone.

Use a small torpedo level to make sure that the flagstones are not tilted. Lay out the stone to create the border. Do your cuts before you mix mortar. A rock hammer and chisel are used to score and cut flagstone. Have the manager at the stone yard demonstrate the easy way to cut and shape flagstone. It is not hard - it just requires a little practice. Chips that are generated from the cutting process can be used as filler in the mortar when you start to lay thinner pieces of flagstone. These thin pieces typically use up lots of mortar. The mortar for the brick laying is mixed as one part cement to three parts sand. When you place the flagstone into the mortar, tap the stone lightly to get it into position. If you have to tap more than three or four times, you have too much mortar under the stone. Too much mortar will also cause the mortar to ooze up in between the stones. This is not good as the intent is to grout the flagstone after they are all set. Once the border is complete, let the stones sit for 24 to 48 hours if possible. This will allow the mortar to get very hard. We need the stones to be set in place before we proceed.

Using a taut string line stretched between the border stone, you fill in the field. This is tons of fun. Just lay full stones that have been shaped to fit next to other stones. Use small stones to fill in gaps between large stones. You don't always have to try to chip a stone to make a huge jigsaw puzzle. If you want to fill in some of these larger "holes" between stones at the end of the project, that's OK. Don't forget to scrape out excess mortar that oozes out from under large stones from where the cuts go. If it dries and gets hard you will have problems.

Once the cut pieces are laid it is time to finish the grout. This is where you fill the spaces between the stones. This task is performed using a grout bag similar to what bakers use to decorate cakes. You mix up a soupy combination of one part sand to one part cement. The mixture should flow out of the bag with little or no squeezing.

It is important that no little rocks are in the mix. They will clog the nozzle. Over fill each joint by 1/4 inch. After a short period of time you will be able to scrape off the excess mortar without smearing the brick. Use a small triangular brick trowel for this job. The hard work will be worth it! It's best to do a small test pad to see if you are up to the task of doing an entire patio. Try it and see!

 



Comments:

Todd Reaker
17 Mar 2008, 02:07
We had flagstone put on top of our concrete porch last May.
Now the gouting is failing and stones
are popping off. It was not sealed.

Is the grout failure due to the fact it wasn't sealed?. It is only failing in a certain area.

Thanks
AsktheBuilder
18 Mar 2008, 19:55
Todd,
I think the grout failure is due to a workmanship error when mixing or installing the grout.
Gordon Waite
16 Apr 2008, 16:03
I am currently laying a large patio using Indian sandstone flags and a pre-prepared bedding mix called "slab-layer". This is mixture of sand and cement. The "slab-layer" instructions require the mix to be put in place and then thoroughly watered. Unfortunately this has resulted in 'picture framing' on the surface of the flags. Can this picture framing be cleaned off and is there any way of preventing it happening on the flags yet to be laid?
Your advice would be greatly appreciated.
Rob Huckestein
15 May 2008, 08:56
Gordon,
Picture framing is something I see all the time on flagstone patios. The grout, or what ever material is used, is over poured or smeared onto the flagstone. You may want to try muriatic acid and a strong brisstle brush or even a wire brush. Be sure to wear a long sleeve shirt, protective glasses and rubber gloves. Try this on a small section of the patio to be sure it doesn't result in an undesirable result.
Shauna
05 Jul 2008, 08:49
My husband and I have been working on laying a flagstone patio in sand. But now we want a more finished and permanent look. Can we use cement as grout between stones even though we laid them in sand?
Thanks for your help.
Phyllis
23 Jul 2008, 19:08
just had a patio laid and they added color then cut into squares 24 x 24. Said they would put grout in but did not. Now it looks S_ _ _ _!!!!!
tried to use small tube of grout to do it and it did not work. How can I grout my patio so it won't look so bad

Please help
Larry Arlen
22 Aug 2008, 09:25
I am going to lay a flagstone patio over a 5 yr old cement patio. Approx size is 450 sq feet. and shape is half a circle. If I start at the perimeter and go inward to the center with the stones what precautions are necessary in stepping on the just laid stones?


Chey
21 Nov 2008, 21:36
I couldn't find a similar question to my dilemma, so .... I am preparing to lay flagstone over my 50+ year old concrete pad (which is a large area in the backyard). Can I install flagstone over the concrete? What type of product is used to adhere the stone to the concrete? And, can I adhere the flagstone, then fill grout spacers with a concret-sand combo, instead of just grout, as I would like to give it a more "natural" appearance? I appreciate your assistance with my questions. I'm a novice at this type of job, but need to get this done and can only afford to do this myself. Thanks, again! ~ Chey

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