Flexible Gas Lines- Are You Serious?

We are currently getting new siding on our house. We had an outside gas pipe for our dryer (it is about 2 1/2 to 3 ft long and sticks out from the house about an inch or two) that the siding crew is currently siding over. Is this anything to be concerned about? Or is the gas line safer inside the siding than exposed on the outside of the house?
Thanks.

Kris,

If it were me, I would leave it exposed so I could always test for leaks.

Where can I buy this stuff, no one seems to carry it at all!!! Help

Alex,
You may not be able to buy it. This material is generally only sold to trained professionals. Go to a real plumbing supply house, not a home center.

Hello,

My basement concrete floor has been removed in order to rough in plumbing for a kitchen.

The kitchen will contain an island which I would like to have a gas line run to (i'm not doing the work myself).

Rather than use black mull piping, can a corrugated stainless steel tubing be used and sleeved inside a bigger pvc pipe so if a gas leak were to ever occur the stainless steel tubing could be easily disconnected and pulled out of the PVC sleeve and replaced without having to break open the concrete?

Thank you.

Jeon,
I can't tell you as your local codes may not allow that. Talk to your building inspector! See what she / he says about soft K copper with flare fittings.

I would like to know more about the flexible natural gas hose. I have a house in Lake Tahoe, Nevada where someone has run a flexible gas line from the basement up two floors to the gas stove in the kitchen. I live in California and have an electric stove in my house. I would like to install a gas stove,is this type of hose legal in California? If so, where can it be purchased?

A question about outdoor residential gas meters and pipes.
The typical gas meter in the residential yard, if the meter is missing removed for what ever reason from the gas company, if a bridge connection was made from the gas pipe to the gas line of the house, in lieu of a meter, is the a presure concern, or has that been reduced prior to the meter, with the device that is on the gas companies pipe ?

Steve,
No comment. I do not wish to be an accessory to this event. Isn't the right thing to do to get a new meter installed by the gas company?????

Hi,

What are the advantages and disadvantages of flexible and stiff pipes?

Kagiso,
You may want to read the above column one more time as well as the other ones about the same topic here at AsktheBuilder.com.

I want to run CSST from a gas line inside the house (for a stovetop), but I need to pass through an external wall and immediately terminate to a fast-connect for a BBQ. What is the best black-pipe fitting (or method) for terminating the CSST and going through an external wall?

Mike,
The CSST instruction manual will show you. Open it to the correct page.

Is this ok for all homes in california I will also check with my local business codes. Thanks RF

I recently purchased a gas stove from HHGregg. When the guys came out to install the stove, they said they couldn't because I had copper pipes. I was never told this when I purchased the stove. Why is this so? What is it about copper piping? I live in a neighborhood where I presume all the houses have the same copper piping. Why won't anyone install my new gas stove?

I have about a 8" long gas connector line, I presume this stainless steel type in a gas fireplace insert. It runs from a control valve which I can control remotely, to the burner inside the fireplace. On the valve side it begins about a 90 degree turn as soon as it leaves the fitting. The entire part of the tubing that I can see has the corrugated or accordion shape to it. Is it ok that it bends so close to the fitting? I had been told it's not good to bend them close to a fitting, but being corrugated the entire length and to the fitting it seems that it is ok to be bent. Am I missing something here?
Note: It was installed in the factory I assume.
Thanks,
Eric

What would you use to seal around the line for weather elements to prevent leaks on penetrations into the house?

C&C Plumbing (Sacramenot, CA.) can give you the DVD instruction and test to become certified to buy and install CSST. I just completed an install on my house for a gas stove and it went great.

Can this type of tubing be used to connect to an outdoor pool heater? I will be running about 100ft from the heater to the gas valve.

Hi,

I have a new laundry room that has the yellow work flex gas line coming through the floor about 1 foot and then has a shut of then about 10 inches of black pipe that is capped. The gas company told me that the flex hose coming through the floor has to be protected/mounted by a termination plate? I had a company come out and say that it would cost $428 to install the plate but it is only a safety precaution, not a necessity. I can't get one of these plates and the installer told me that sooner or later with vibration the line would break... Now I am worried about just hooking up the dryer without this plate... Is this hose coming through the floor stong enough to not break? I understand that everything has a breaking point, but it's not like its going to be kicked or kinked or smashed or crushed, its just a line coming in through the floor... there is nothing near it except the dryer a foot away. Should I just hook up the line to the dryer and test it for leaks and be done with it?

Hi,
I am extending a pipe in my home which will require turning off the gas to the meter. Since all the natural gas will be vented from the piping system, what effect will this have on the meter when gas is turned back on. I have the common diaphram type. And what is the typical process to purge the air from the piping after all ignition sources have been shut down.

We brought this house a year ago. And my step son was just mowing and there was a gas light outside. There was a gas leak we called the gas company. They capped the leak and then took are meter.They build a sunroom around the gas lines.So we have the gas lines moved.To the outside of are house before the gas company will give are meter back. So we have been digging are self to save alot of money.My question is how long are gas lines Where they would put a cuple or a fitting.Every 12 feet or it vary.
Thanks
so much for your help. We are tired of taking cold showers.

Is this safe to use if you re running the gas line from the gas line to add a T and then go to dryer nd then the gas cooking stove.> Would this be o.k.

I live in Indiana and we have had problems in this state as well with lightning strikes causing fires. In each case the CSST is either in contact or close to a grounded pipe,copper or black pipe. What's happening is the lightning is trying to bridge the gap and blowing a hole in the softer CSST. As you can imagine you have a fire with an unlimited source of fuel,namely gas. As a home inspector we are recommending hiring a qualified electrician and have him ground all lines other than the CSST. The lightning will then take the path of least resistance and not try to bridge that gap if you have one. All things considered CSST is the best thing invented since sliced bread.

Can CSST be used to run gas thru a wood floor to a set of gas logs in a fireplace??

Besides the risk outlined in the Dallas News Article, CSST also presents a problem in that the building codes seem to be very ambiguous about protection of the lines in places where nails and screws might intrude and puncture the lines.

Do the manufacturers not tell installers to keep these CSST lines at least 3 inches away from roof decks and areas of the wall where nails and screws might intrude in the future?

In areas where hailstorms occur and roofs may need to be changed out, hundreds of these lines are being hit by PROPERLY PLACED roofing nails.

The resulting gas leaks have not caused death or injury so far but IMO, it is only a matter of time before tragedy will strike.

Doesn't the International Residential Code have some way to highlight, clarify or demand that installers of these lines not put them within 3" of a roof deck or any other area where nails or screws are likely to intrude?

The roofers nailing shingles on a plywood deck do not have X-Ray vision and when HVAC subs tuck this tubing in the corner where the rafter meets the roof deck, they are just asking for disaster.

Do the building code officials or manufacturers of CSST realize what a threat this is and if so, what are they doing to prevent it?

Ivan Fulwell

Dallas

Hello- I recently purchased a new dryer and had it installed. The delivery/installer person refused to replace the flex line. What is the appropriate course of action with the appliance sales people, to correct this situation.

I'm reffering the" re used" flex line which is clearly a 'no-no' on the label.

I should have done the research on installing a gas line before I had it done, but I just received a bill of $600 for labor and parts. This is steeper than I expected, but the company does not do estimates. They put in about 25ft of flexible tubing and worked for 3 hrs to run a gas line to my kitchen. Do you think I have been duped? Thanks for any input.
-Seema

We built a new home in the West, and the yellow flexible gas lines, of which there are quite a few, were routed along the "plates" of the floor trusses, tearing little gouges on the bright yellow coating of the flexible pipe. I have tested those areas with soapy solutions and for about a year now have never smelled a leak. Should I be concerned?? I have interposed some pads between the plates and the lines so they won't come into contact again and of course there is no vibration or movement here because we are talking about a home.
THANKS!

Many think their homes are safe havens in a thunderstorm.

That's what Cliff and Charlene Nutter thought -- until the early hours of June 26, when lightning hit the vent cap of their chimney, igniting a fire in the basement of their Groveport condominium.

"If we hadn't caught it when we did," Charlene Nutter said, "it could have destroyed the whole unit and our neighbor's unit."

How did a rooftop lightning strike spark a basement fire?

The culprit, according to the Madison Township Fire Department, was corrugated stainless-steel tubing, a flexible gas line used in a many U.S. homes built the past two decades.

Corrugated stainless-steel tubing -- sometimes called CSST -- is widely regarded as a safe, useful product.

Many home builders have come to prefer it to traditional black iron piping, largely because the lightweight flexible tubing can be pulled through crawl spaces, floor joists and drywall studs much like electrical wiring.

More than 150 million feet of corrugated stainless-steel tubing has been installed since the product's introduction in 1988, says ToolBase Services, an industry clearinghouse for technical information about building materials.

The problem is that much of the flexible tubing installed in homes isn't properly grounded, making it vulnerable in thunderstorms, fire officials say.

When lightning strikes a home, the electrical charge can travel through the structure via conductors such as metal ducts, officials explain.

If the electricity arcs near corrugated stainless-steel tubing, it can perforate the tubing, which is much thinner than its iron counterpart.

A tiny hole, they say, can transform the pressurized, gas-filled line into something akin to a blowtorch.

Having seen the phenomenon firsthand, the Nutters understand why the experts use that comparison.

"Flames were just shooting across the crawl space," Cliff Nutter said.

"It isn't the biggest fire hazard in your house, but improperly installed CSST might be the biggest fire hazard you've never heard of in your house," says the consumer watchdog organization Angie's List.

An analysis by WBNS-TV (Channel 10) identified at least 22 house fires in the Columbus metropolitan area during the past five years related to the use of corrugated stainless-steel tubing. The fires were clustered in suburban areas with relatively new residential construction.

"When we get a basement fire and it's during storms, we automatically suspect CSST," said Gary Honeycutt, fire chief in southern Delaware County's Genoa Township, where seven of the 22 fires broke out.

Hoping to curb future damage, Honeycutt and his department have put together a training video detailing the best techniques for fighting such blazes.

He has taken steps to protect his home, too. A few years ago, the chief balked when the contractor building his house proposed using flexible gas lines.

"I refused to allow them to do it," he said.

Ohio's building code has mandated the grounding and bonding of corrugated stainless-steel tubing since 2006, but no such requirement was in place for 18 years, during which thousands of homes were built in central Ohio.

Do you have corrugated stainless-steel tubing in your home?

Look for long stretches of flexible tubing in your basement, crawl space or attic. Don't be alarmed by the short flexible pipes used to connect gas lines to stoves, furnaces or water heaters; they're not corrugated stainless-steel tubing.

If you're not sure whether you have the tubing -- or if you do, whether it's properly grounded -- call an electrician, plumber or home inspector.

Grounding your corrugated stainless-steel tubing will cost several hundred dollars, or you can spend a great deal more -- $2,000 to $8,000 -- on a lightning-protection system with lightning rods and surge protection for your entire electrical system, Angie's List says.

Either way, you'll probably have to pick up the cost.

Two years ago, an Arkansas court approved a settlement in a class-action lawsuit against four manufacturers of corrugated stainless-steel tubing, but the deadline for filing a claim -- and receiving a voucher for remediation -- has passed.

Although the defendants agreed to the settlement, they denied allegations that the tubing posed an unreasonable risk of lightning-related fires. The manufacturers say the product is safe if installed in accordance with building codes and the manufacturers' instructions.

Fire officials such as Honeycutt say they'll continue to sound a warning about improperly installed corrugated stainless-steel tubing.

The same goes for the Nutters, who said they'll never forget the smell of smoke in their bedroom or the sight of flames shooting across their crawl space next to their basement.

I am having an inground pool installed. I need tobranch off my existing gas meter which is at least one and one half inch black pipe.
What can I come off with to go about sixty feet underground go supply a two hunderd fifty gas heater?

Dear Tim,
We had CSST gas line in our home and we had a lighting strike 25 feet from our house. The strike found our outside gasline came into our home and destoyed it. It was a total loss. No CSST is not safe and can not handle a large energy surge. Thank you, Debbie

I would suggest installing lightning rods on the roof top.

I had a plumber install a new gas line for my kitchen remodel. He put in flex pipe. When they came to inspect it, they failed it. Flex pipe REQUIRES #6 copper to the water pipe. The inspector said that if lightning strikes the stove, it can run along the pipe. A charge builds up at the peak of each piece. When the charge builds up enough, it jumps to the next peak. When it does this, it perforates the pipe. Grounding it, according to NEC code prevents this. The wire had to go from within 12 inches of the connection to the gas pipe to within 36" of the where the water pipe comes into the house.

Just failed the mechanical inspection on a new propane stove installation. The code in Michigan requires that the existing gas pipe be bonded (grounded) to the electrical box if you add CSST.

I have just been told I have a bad pipe between the meeter and my house approximately 50 feet. Can I use CSST instead of pipe? Can it be attached to the siding by the foundation or does it have to be buried? Can CSST be buried?

Thanks!


Jim

I'm building a new house in rural Texas with a pier & beam foundation. I need to run propane gas piping for 5 vent-free fireplaces, a gas range, 2 tank-less water heaters and gas clothes dryer. My HVAC is a heat pump. My plumber wanted to use the flex gas piping. Should it be installed in the attic or suspended under the floor. I have a 2 - 2 1/2 crawl space.

Thank you for the info re: the CSST.
I am looking to replace the elec kitchen range/oven and add an outdoor BBQ. I will ask my plumber about CSST. Is there a limit to how many appliances that CSST can accomadate?
thanks, tony

Installing a set of gas fire logs. Being very safety concious, I have a choice between a rigid stainless tube to run beneath the logs or stainless flex. Flex would be good if the logs were bumped or moved for whatever reason, but on the other hand I am thinking of heat over prolonged time and if the tube would be better or does it matter, because the tubing is very thin anyway. Your opinion is appreciated.

I understand that PEX is not approved for transmitting natural gas. If that is true can you explain why?

I have a gas line that runs in celling of my basement to the fire place in the living room. I would like to drywall the celling. Can you cover up the gas line?
Thanks.

I had CSST damaged by a nearby lightning strike. The leak was inside the wall near the fireplace. If the pilot light had been on, we would have lost the house.

I work for the gas company in my home town, I've seen many of these CSST installations. They seem to work great, the only drawbacks I have seen with them are-

1. Appliance stub outs seem to be frequently loose, due to being improperly secured.

2.CSST lines inside walls are easily pierced by nails or screws driven into the walls. These leaks are not easily detected without pressure testing the line.

Quote - "I responded to this very interesting email with a few thoughts of my own. My first suspicion would be that the tubing acts like a lightning rod of sorts. The thin walls of CSST might not seem to handle as much of a strike as black iron. Black iron is so much thicker that it may actually take a lightning strike better."

We became aware of this problem when our house was struck by lightning and it blew a hole in our CSST causing a gas leak. Luckily we had our gas and carbon monoxide detector on. The gas company repair man said this was the third incident he's seen in the last several years.

My gas dryer is next to the furnace and the hot water heater, the area is pretty cramped. Id like to move the washer and dryer to the next room. Would this flex hose be a good choice to run the hose? am i able to run this through a wall? it would only have to be 10 feet or so. Thanks.

Being in the City of Frisco, I read with some interest the e-mail update of Nov 2005 which resulted in a bit of quick searching. That search led me here: http://www.ci.frisco.tx.us/departments/fire/firemarshal/Pages/GasLineLightn ingProtectionSystems.aspx

I may have misread this, but it appears that they haven't placed any particular restrictions specifically on the usage of CSST.

Tim,

Thanks for the very informative and professional article.

I have 1" OD yellow CSST that was installed by a contractor to connect to a new gas range in my kitchen. When the contractor added the line, it 'Tee-d' off the main supply line after the meter, went through the outside wall using black iron, then connected to CSST inside the garage. I'm now removing some very old wood cabinets that covered the inside wall. I see that if I sheetrock the inside wall I have to support the CSST, because it would poke through the sheetrock near the top of the wall. Should the CSST have been installed through the two 2x4's that form the 'header' at the top of the wall? They let it drape behind the cabinets, which were 8' tall, and they supported it on the roof trusses with plastic fittings that look pretty durable. I want to protect the CSST from accidental damage when and after I install the sheetrock.

Two questions:

1) Is it safe to sheetrock this myself, or is this a job for a pro only?
2) Did my contractor 'bend' the rules when they installed the CSST this way?

Thanks.

Hi,
I know this is old, but I was still hoping for an answer... About two years ago we had a standby generator installed. The contractor who installed the CSST basically just scraped the mulch in the flowerbed away with his foot and laid the CSST on the ground, then kicked the much back over. Well now this CSST is becoming very exposed and it is fading to a whiteish color (started yellow) due to sunlight. I live in a state that gets snow and freezing weather as well. Is this an issue that needs addressed?

What is the longest length of CSST can be run,and what size,work being done by contractor just check to see if will be done to code,

Just inside my basement wall the gasline has some kind of a big thing wrapped in heavy newspaper and heavy cardboard. What is going on here?

hello, what if the yellow casing around the pipe itself is damaged? it has been torn away so you can see pieces of the CSST coming right through. The CSST at this timeisnot damaged,is this something that I should be concerned about? Thank you.

Tim -

I too work with black pipe and have a soft spot for it! (though I use it to run compressor lines rather than gas).

The flex stuff is interesting, but I'm not convinced. My biggest fear would be what happens if someone cutting from a blindspot hits the tubing with a sawzall? I know cutting blindly would be stupid, but people do it. Black pipe would be fine, but soft copper or that tubing would not. Is there some sort of webbing in that tubing to prevent cut throughs?

I am admittedly a dinosaur when it comes to new tech. Thanks for an interesting article.

I have just had work done and all the techs plumbers are telling me that copper pipe is now illegal in residential and i was made to change everything also I had a wall heater "gas" in my bathroom that was also removed due to code violations supposedly

flexible gas lines are for people who are lazy, and dont take pride in installing a rock hard,solid,ridgid piping system that will last for years. who is to say there wont be problems down the road from now with this crap

Can a flex gas line be installed inside a wall cavity to connect to a kitchen stove? Can a flex ga line be joined together with another flex gas line to make it longer with the connection being made so it is inside the wall cavit? Can you please provide me with the National Building Code that covers this issue?

Thank you,

Larry

will the3/4 gas line from the back of my house provide enough flow for a gas heater to be installed about 10 feet away?

3/8inches simlex ss grade-304 gas pipe 90 feet required

I am removing a gas dryer and replacing with electic. I have shut off the gas line but i am having trouble disconeneting the flexable gas line from the dryer nad or the gas pipe. any suggestions i dont want to break anything

I would never ever have CSST installed in my house. Not only is the article regarding the banning of CSST in Frisco valid, I just saw the new story on channel 11 CBS about this. They interviewed the fire marshal for Frisco and point blank asked him what he would have installed in his own home... "I'd have black iron pipe" was his reply. That should speak for itself.

Remember there is a reason it costs less.

Why if the Csst tubing has been approved since 1988 by the National gas code are other materials primarily used?