Ask the BuilderAsk the Builder
Ask the Builder's on:

Subscribe to askthebuilder's videos

Air Conditioning
Asphalt - Blacktop
Brick
Building Tips
Cabinets
Caulk
Ceilings
Ceramic Tile
Checklists
Chimneys
Concrete
Concrete Defects
Concrete Installation
Condensation
Countertops
Deck Construction
Deck Maintenance
Design
DIY
Doors
Drainage
Drywall - Plaster
DVDs
EBooks - EDocs
Electrical
Energy Savings
Engineered Wood
Fences
Fireplaces
Flooring
Foundation
Garage Doors
Glue
Hardware
Heating Design
Home Builders
Home Depot Stories
House Plans
Hurricanes
Insects
Inspections
Insulation
Interior Walls
Kitchen
Lighting
Lots
Miscellaneous
Mold
New Construction
Newsletters
Online Courses
Outdoor Projects
Painting - Staining
Patio
Payments
Plumbing Design
Plumbing Supplies
Projects
Radiant Barrier
Remodeling
Retaining Walls
Roofing
Rough Lumber
Screened Porches
Sheds
Siding
Specialty Accessories
Stone
Storage
Structural
Stucco - EIFS
Tools
Trim Lumber
Vapor Barrier
Ventilation
Videos
Walk Throughs
Wallpaper
Windows
Glossary






Getting a New Hardwood Floor Level

By Tim Carter
©1993-2008 Tim Carter
Summary: Hardwood floor installation can be slowed by an uneven subfloor. Before installing hardwood floors, use a straight edge to find the humps and dips in the subfloor. Then, using a floor leveling compound or asphalt shingles, shim the dips so the floor is level.

DEAR TIM: I am getting ready to install 3/4 inch thick tongue and groove golden oak hardwood flooring. I am ready to start the job but my wood subfloor seems to have all sorts of high and low spots. I don't know where to start the job. Should I use a leveling compound to smooth the floor? Are there other tricks I can employ to make sure the finished floor is smooth as glass once finished? Gary W., Calgary, Alberta, CAN

DEAR GARY: This task is not as challenging as it might seem. You are very lucky that you discovered the flaw in the subflooring before you started the installation of the finished wood. All too often, I have seen professionally installed hardwood floors that have dips, humps and other inconsistencies in them. When I see these imperfections on the finished high-gloss surface, I know a rookie must have installed the actual flooring.

There are wood subfloors that are very hardwood-friendly. Wood floor systems framed with engineered wood I joists, or those made from floor trusses, often are extremely flat or in the same plane. Those wood floors framed with traditional solid-wood joists are the ones that can cause problems. Each joist may be slightly different in height and, to compound problems, each joist can have a different degree of crown. The crown in a wood floor joist refers to the amount of upward curvature that exists in the framing member as you look down the length of the top edge. If the rough carpenters and lumber suppliers are very selective about the floor joists they use, a traditional wood joist system can be as perfect as a wood I-joist or floor truss system.

My family room hardwood floor is smooth as glass. Why? The installer and I used shingles and a straightedge to make it so.

To get your wood subfloor ready, the first thing to do is to make sure the wood sheathing that is on top of the joists is securely fastened. I highly recommend installing coarse-threaded screws in addition to the nails that might already be in place. Be sure to do this in high foot-traffic areas of the room. The use of screws will prevent floor squeaks that are caused by nails that are not driven completely or that work themselves loose because of lumber shrinkage. Use screws that penetrate at least one and one quarter inch into the wood joist.

After the subflooring is screwed tightly to the joists, vacuum the floor to remove all dust and debris. Use a six-foot long straight edge and a level to find the highest spot on the floor. Although you might want the floor to end up in the same plane, it may not be a realistic goal. Your existing floor may be severely crowned. If this is the case, the hardwood floor may need a giant wedge of shims or leveling compound that extends to one or more walls in the room. This degree of correction may not be needed to get the visual goal you desire.

I always use regular roofing shingles to fill in any dips or depressions in wood or concrete subfloors. The overall floor may not end up in the same plane, but if you have just one gentle hump that extends over 10 or 12 feet, the naked eye can rarely detect this imperfection. Dips or depressions in a subfloor are immediately identified using the six-foot long straightedge. Place it at the highest spot in the floor and slowly swing it around in a 360 degree circle. The low spots will be readily visible under the straightedge.

Use as many asphalt shingles as necessary to fill the low spots. They do not have to be nailed down as the many nails used to hold the flooring in place will pass through the shingles as they are driven into the wood subfloor. You can tack the shingles in place if you desire so they do not move around as you work on the floor.

The use of a floor leveling compound can achieve the same goal, however it requires a bit of skill to apply the compound evenly. Also, if you mix some leveling compounds wrong by adding too much water, there is a possibility they can break down over time and turn to powder. This will not happen with shingles, which is exactly why they are my weapon of choice when confronted with this task.

If you fail to fill the depressions under a hardwood floor, the hardwood can flex when you walk over it. Over time, this can cause squeaks as the hardwood slides up and down the nail shafts of the nails used to install the hardwood. The subfloor doesn't have to be absolutely in the same plane to prevent squeaks, but voids of 1/8 inch or more can cause problems.

Installing hardwood flooring perpendicular to the direction of the floor joists is also critical. Finished flooring that runs parallel to the joist direction will often telegraph the slightest defects in the subflooring.

Be sure to install tar paper over both wood and concrete subfloors to minimize moisture infiltration to the underside of hardwood flooring. Tar paper is an excellent vapor retarder.

Photo by: Tim Carter

 






Comments

Terri
27 Nov 2007, 08:53
When leveling your floor for hardwood installation, do you lay the shingles on the subfloor and then the tarpaper, or first the tarpaper, then the shingles?
ATB
27 Nov 2007, 09:21
I prefer to do the tar paper first.
Ron C. Sudbury ON Canada
16 Dec 2007, 09:54
I am in the same predicament where I have a couple of significant dips in my floor due to a high joist, likely due to excessive crown. If i do not have shingles could i use 3/16" mohogany subfloor to level the floor? If so, how do I minimize the impact of the edges of the sub floor patch? Would the laying of the felt paper over the patch be sufficient? Or should I sand the edges of the sub floor patch to make a smoother transition? I have already laid down the first 5 rows and will not reach this lower spot for probably another 5 rows of flooring.

Thanks in advance for the help
AsktheBuilder
16 Dec 2007, 10:24
Ron,
You can use that thin plywood. Yes, sand the edges.
Luis Angeles
28 Dec 2007, 00:16
Unfortunately, I think i have a more complicated problem and am in desperate need for assistance. My kitchen and dining room share the same floor. I have installed cement board in the kitchen upto where I want the hard wood floor to begin in the dining room. Both the underlayment and subfloor surfaces are flat, with no dips. If i were to install the ceramic tiles and the hardwood flooring the two floors would be flush to eachother. Sounds good so far right? The problem is that the entire floor is sloped to one side about 3/16" per foot. The kitchen wall is 14 feet long. The dining room wall is 24 feet long. I would like to make the kitchen floor level because of the base cabinets and countertop. Is there any way that i could level out the hard wood flooring so that it stays flush with the tiles? I want to stay away from using a saddle because i have alreasy chosen a ceramic border piece. Thank you for your time. Happy holidays.
AsktheBuilder
28 Dec 2007, 07:15
Luis,
If your measurements are accurate, you have serious issues. My math shows the floor is out of level over 7 inches in the 38 feet. That can't be the case. Well, it can be......but if so, you better call in a structural engineer to see if your house is going to tip over one day.
Tim
30 Dec 2007, 17:24
We purchased a house with hardwood floors and the first time we walked on it without shoes we notices the floor was kind of rough. It feels rough on the hands also and you can feel the gaps between boards. Was this floor just not finished or sealed?
AsktheBuilder
30 Dec 2007, 18:04
Tim,
It could be that or maybe their is water vapor hitting the underside....... Read ALL of my Hardwood Flooring columns.
Geoff Valentine
02 Jan 2008, 19:41
Tim,

I'm dealing with the uneven wooden subfloor challenge with dips of almost a half an inch in an 8-foot span. The difference is I'm planning to install engineered hardwood with a floating installation. Would you still use shingles to fill the dips? Would they:
- be nailed or somehow fastened?
- be installed upright or upside down?
- be above or below the underlayment?

Any other suggestions?

Thanks,

Geoff
Osgoode, ON
AsktheBuilder
02 Jan 2008, 19:46
Geoff,
You can nail them - especially in your case with the floating floor. With traditional hardwood, the flooring nails pin the shingles. You can install them however you want - up or down. I would put them under the underlayment in your case.

     View all comments
*Name:
Email:
Notify me about new comments on this page
Hide my email
*Text:
Security Image:

Visual CAPTCHA


 







Ask the Builder Comment Help

Helpful Comment Tips: If you need help with a problem, please try these things now before you type in a comment. You could discover your answer in just minutes.
  • Read ALL Comments Before Submitting One: If there are lots of comments that are already part of this column, there is a very good chance your question has already been answered by me or someone else.
  • Read Similar-Titled Columns First: The column above is almost always part of a two-or-three-part series. The answer to a question you may have is probably in a related column or in comments that are part of that column.
  • Read Columns in a Category: Take the time to read many columns in a category. The amount of information you will discover will amaze you.
  • SHARE a Story: Please share any tips or amusing tales of glory! Tell others what has worked for you. Maybe you have a disaster you want to discuss. Let's collaborate so we all learn together.
Don't show this alert again.